The fight to be more than a verb: genericide in SaaS, with Bitly CMO Tara Robertson

Nikki Elbaz (00:00) Most holiday emails are just a thinly veiled excuse to send out another promotion. But a couple of years ago, Bitly sent out a Valentine’s Day email that was both sweet and clever. And the surprising part, it had no CTA. It was just there to connect with customers. And put something fun in the inbox. Devin O’Toole is the lifecycle marketer behind that email, and I interviewed him for Email Swipes, the podcast I was running at the time. And I challenged him on that lack of CTA. How do you send an email with no way to track whether it worked? Turns out Bitly got plenty of feedback. The email blew up on social. And people hit reply, which is the best engagement metric any marketer could ask for. But I was still skeptical. That an email like that. can drive anything beyond brand loyalty. And for a performance channel like email, is brand loyalty a good fit? Is it something you can run again and again? Here’s what Devin explained back when I interviewed him, and what became even clearer when I interviewed Tara for this episode. The poem wasn’t a cute attention-grabbing thing that Bitly did when they took a break from doing real marketing. It was a part of their real marketing strategy. Just one touch point in an overarching campaign. that they have been running for years, tackling a problem you only get when you’re a category leader. Today, you’re gonna watch a customer run up against this category leader problem and see how this campaign is solving it, slowly but surely. Here’s how this show works. Every episode I hand my guest a real piece of customer feedback. A three-star review, a Reddit rant. A puzzling survey response. Together we trace it back to what the feedback is actually telling us. Not the surface ask, the shift underneath it. Because the SaaS playbook has trained us to read feedback one way. As a feature request, a line for the product backlog, something to build, or politely decline. What that playbook misses is that feedback can often be waving a flag. That something has changed for your user. And they have started reevaluating how you fit into their life. I call these moments Change Flags, and there are nine that matter. Three happen when you change your product, three happen when things change in your user’s life. And three when something shifts in the market at large. Catch one late, and the user just slips away. No complaint, no warning, gone. Catch it in real time, and the same moment flips. They go deeper. They upgrade, they add seats or usage that they didn’t know they needed. Same flag, two outcomes. And obviously, we are aiming for the second. So we’ll end off each episode with a theoretical experiment that we will build together with a guest to address the Change Flag. Or our guests will show us what they’ve already built and how it’s working for them. I’m Nikki Elbaz, bringing 15 years of SaaS marketing to these experiments. Welcome to Churn Flags. One thing before we start. Customer feedback is the most reactive way to spot a Change Flag. In the work that I actually do. We catch these flags from a whole slew of proactive indicators. And feedback is the last piece and the smallest. It’s just the one that we could talk about really easily publicly. If you’re suspecting that you’re not tracking some of these indicators. You’re probably right, not enough companies are. So you’ll want to take the Change Flags quiz. It takes about four minutes, runs you head to head, and even line items what each Change Flag is costing you. Find the quiz at nikkielbaz.com/quiz. Our guest today is Tara Robertson. Who is the marketing brain behind a whole bunch of SaaS that you love. Like Teamwork, Sprout Social, and Hotjar. Right now she’s working her magic as chief marketing officer at Bitly. Now, if I asked you what Bitly is, you would probably say a link shortener. That’s not wrong. But link shortening is just one tool of many in the Bitly dashboard. Bitly in 2026 is a link management platform. I know your jargon detectors just started beeping. A link management platform sounds exactly like a link shortener. Just with a couple more syllables. But if you’re a social media manager. You need to know that Bitly has those extra syllables. And it’s exactly what we are going to get to in this episode. Let’s start with our piece of customer feedback. A G2 review from Kaitlyn. A mid-market senior social media manager.

Nikki Elbaz (03:49) I wish you had a product similar to Linktree so I could do everything on one app. What’s your reaction when you hear that?

Tara Robertson (03:55) I mean, it says it well when you look at the response from Bitly. It’s

Nikki Elbaz (03:58) haha

Tara Robertson (03:58) surprised. Like I’m surprised that people don’t know about some of the products that we have accessible already. So, Bitly does have a link in bio product. It’s accessible in our navigation and simple to get to. And so this is a recent review from somebody in February that knows us as a URL shortener, a QR code builder, and is looking for a product that we already have within our platform. And it’s surprising to me, I guess, that this is something that is coming up as a dislike that is very solvable because it’s already there. it’s fascinating when people don’t know about something that exists in the product that is like in the navigation of our product. So you should never make assumptions that people understand how to use all the values within your product even when you’re known for your ease of use. that’s been one of the big challenges that we’ve been trying to solve, known by almost everyone in marketing, but only for a small segment of what we do. which then can make it very challenging because it does introduce churn when people are

Nikki Elbaz (04:55) Mm-hmm.

Tara Robertson (04:56) just coming to us for the link, but where they actually get the value is in the multi-product part of the platform. And then in this case, they might not even know that there’s one part of our product that we don’t actually market a lot because it’s value add. It’s not something that people come to us to buy, but it’s something

Nikki Elbaz (05:11) Mm-hmm.

Tara Robertson (05:12) that helps them with their overall impact for what they’re trying to it’s surprising because we’ve had our link in bio product for years. I wouldn’t say that the link in bio product is a big retention driver. It’s more of just a value add in the product, but it’s fascinating that that’s like, that is what this person’s leaning into as a dislike. when we talk about churn or the inverse of churn, stronger retention, it’s when people get the value beyond just the creation of the link or the QR code. It’s an optimizing the outcome of what they’re trying to achieve by coming to Bitly. For like nobody wakes up and says, I think I’ll create a link today. it’s just, that’s not what our product exists for. But it is an important part of somebody’s workflow. for every campaign that you drive, you need to have

Nikki Elbaz (05:53) Mm-hmm.

Tara Robertson (05:55) a QR code or you need to have a link if you’re trying to connect with your audiences in the most simplistic ways. And we want to make it simple for our customers to come and get to those outcomes in the various ways that they’re connecting.

Nikki Elbaz (06:07) and you see this on the flip side as well, because some of the negative reviews were talking about how, do I have to pay $8 a month to shorten some links? I can do that for much less with the competitors. And then you’re like, wait, you’re not shortening links. You look at the other reviews who are talking positively and they’re saying I get analytics and I have my QR codes and I can manage all my campaigns and it’s helping me understand the conversion data. And it’s like, That’s worth $8 a month. That’s worth whatever tier they’re on. Like that’s not just link shortening. That’s real value. So yeah, you see that on the flip side.

Nikki Elbaz (06:41) This is the downside of being a household name. Everyone knows Bitly, or at least everyone thinks they know Bitly. And you just heard what that costs them. Eight dollars a month to shorten a link is a bad deal. Those reviewers aren’t wrong. If that’s honestly all you’re doing with it, go find a cheaper alternative. But the truth is they’re not underpaying. They’re underusing. They’re using one tool that they know about in a dashboard of tools that can give them so much value. So let’s trace this back to a Change Flag. This one is Perception, one of three Platform flags. It pops up when you ship or acquire so many new products that how the market thinks of you doesn’t match what you actually do and all the capabilities that you have. is a problem that you only get by doing a good job. Bitly captured the market so well that for a lot of marketers, it’s not a company, it’s something you do with a link. You can’t buy that kind of win. But you also can’t undo it very easily. What this looks like for you if you’re tackling this problem? What elevator pitch would your customer use to describe what you do? And what’s actually missing from what you actually do? And the interesting question is not what’s missing. It’s why every time you’ve told them what’s missing, it still hasn’t stuck in their brains. So the solve seems really obvious. Show them that there’s more to Bitly than link shortening. Remember what Kaitlyn asked for? A Linktree alternative. So call it that. she’ll find it more easily. Instead of calling it by an internal name like Pages, call it what she calls it in her head, a link in bio tool. But whenever a solve is this obvious, you can bet that there are some other factors to consider.

Nikki Elbaz (08:09) What was the decision around like calling it Pages versus link in bio?

Tara Robertson (08:13) Great question. So the biggest decision between the naming convention of Pages, and we actually went through a whole lot of research in naming it as well, is we found that when customers started to use what was initially rolled out as a link in bio tool, people wanted it for more than just link in bio. Link in bio

Nikki Elbaz (08:30) Hmm.

Tara Robertson (08:31) often is connected to just your social media sites and the link in bio that you might have in your Instagram, for example. But people were using it as a very simple landing page tool to organize all of their different content. And often it’s not even just the social campaign managers, but your SMB owner of a small retail shop, for example, that just wants a place that they can organize all of their content that they want to drive people to connect with. And so, yeah, it is often more than just the link in bio tool, but it’s essentially built in the same way we initially built it because of the need for link in bio. And then it evolved into a simple landing page tool essentially for organizing your content.

Nikki Elbaz (09:15) Okay. So let’s say you’re talking to Kaitlyn, this woman who left this review. She’s looking for this landing page thing. Ignoring all your other users, we’re talking to her. What would be a way to show this to her without actually talking to her? How could we change the experience for her.

Tara Robertson (09:30) Well, I mean, the first question you asked that I actually want to dig a little bit into is why name it Pages versus link in bio. because who is Kaitlyn? What is her

Nikki Elbaz (09:38) Mm-hmm.

Tara Robertson (09:39) job? What is the job to be done that she came to Bitly for? And what is she looking for that she’s not seeing? it’s hard for me to say, I’m not going to talk to her cause I kind of want to talk to Kaitlyn and ask her

Nikki Elbaz (09:48) you

Tara Robertson (09:48) some questions and try to dig in a little bit more into, when you look at the visual that I showed. Pages is very clearly there in our product is the miss that she was looking for. Link in bio, a very specific tool that’s built for a social media manager. that is a competitor to Linktree. we often don’t compete with Linktree because our Pages tool, while it is a competitive tool to a link in bio, that isn’t necessarily our target market and where we’re going after, but Kaitlyn’s using our product. She’s looking for a link in bio tool. And so I guess the first place of communicating without communicating is digging into customer research, trying to understand the problem that Kaitlyn is facing. Is this something that we’re seeing across the board? Is it we have multiple customers in the same role that Kaitlyn’s in that are having that same challenge? Or is this isolated in which communicating via like, guess what? We got the thing. You should check out the thing. is enough to get her to her outcome. Like I would really love to know if Kaitlyn then went in and found Pages and then started

Nikki Elbaz (10:49) Thanks.

Tara Robertson (10:49) using the link in bio tool or not. The other piece is based on Kaitlyn’s feedback. And that’s where I was saying it’s helpful to then go and understand, this a volume challenge that we might be able to look at through our customer research, through our continuous UX research that then makes us consider, do we start to add different ways to communicate to Kaitlyn or Kaitlyns of the world in our ongoing optimization. And so maybe there’s other social media marketers that need to know that Pages equals link in bio and that you could use it for that way. And if it is a big enough volume, that it is something that we want to build into our automation, then. being able to go in and test that. we don’t want to immediately take action and just saying, hey, we get to solve for just Kaitlyn with the volume of emails and contacts and users that we have. But I think Kaitlyn’s feedback is helpful for us to understand if this is a macro trend that we need to then understand is the trade off something that we need to make in our prioritization to then make sure we’re messaging to the Kaitlyns of the world beyond just the. Hey Kaitlyn, good news. We got the thing.

Nikki Elbaz (11:53) Look at what Tara needs to know that a review can’t tell her. Who Kaitlyn is, what she came to Bitly to do in the first place, how often she uses Bitly. And we do know some of this. we know she’s a senior social media manager at a mid-market company. But we don’t know how long she’s been using Bitly before she wrote this review. We don’t know what she came in to do. We don’t know what her day to day responsibilities are. We don’t know the scale of her social media programme. And we have no idea if she’s an edge case or the first of a thousand. I told you in the intro that reviews are the most reactive signal there is. This is what this means. You’re diagnosing a problem. That arrives after the fact and tells you so little. Again, I use reviews on the show because they’re public and we can show them to you easily. In real life, we start sprints with an audit. Usage patterns, support themes. Objections coming up on sales calls. existing expansion revenue. Which nine flags are popping up for you right now and what it costs you? Then we run a Change Flag sprint. on the flags that are most important to fix. If you run growth at a SaaS struggling with retention, expansion, or even acquisition, and you know you can be tapping your existing customers better. Head to nikkielbaz.com/sprints. One thing you’ll love about the sprints: I work together with your team. You’ll notice in the episodes that the experiments never come purely from me. It’s always a teamwork effort. Because you know your product best, even if I run – and I do run – a research and discovery phase. I bring the retention and expansion expertise, you bring your product expertise, and we ship something together that is built to last. So again, nikkielbaz.com/sprints. But back to the episode. What indicators is Bitly actually tracking for this flag?

Nikki Elbaz (13:24) what would be an indicator of somebody needing to understand that Bitly does more than just links. They’ve happily used the tool for a while just shortening links. How could we help them see more when they’re ready for it? Not just us pushing to them like hey we have more you can get more value

Tara Robertson (13:44) Mm-hmm.

Nikki Elbaz (13:44) but that churn risk are there any indicators we where we could say they are really looking for something here. Let’s try to reactivate them. Are there any pieces that could indicate that they’re ready for more features?

Tara Robertson (13:57) Yeah, I actually, was, while you were talking, I wanted to pull up an email thread that I was having with Devin actually earlier today,

Nikki Elbaz (14:03) Bye.

Tara Robertson (14:03) So there’s two different things that we look to do. within our customer research, one, We always want to know what the job to be done is. And we’ve got different jobs to be done for our customers that sign up. And we’ll just simplify it by talking about two of the jobs, which are the majority of the jobs for Bitly users. They are connectors or trackers. A connector

Nikki Elbaz (14:21) Mm-hmm.

Tara Robertson (14:22) is somebody that come to Bitly because they want to create a link or they want to create a QR code. And that makes up the majority of our customer base. Our trackers are customers that still want to create their links and QR codes, but they actually want to analyze the outcomes and continuously optimize, which makes up a lower amount of our overall signups, but they have higher lifetime value.

Nikki Elbaz (14:44) Mmm, yeah.

Tara Robertson (14:45) Connectors can graduate into trackers. Our link in bio users would kind of fit into the connectors element, but with the ability to also grow into becoming a tracker. Now one of the biggest challenges that I would say we are always working to solve is what we were talking about before where to a lot of people, Bitly equals link shortener. And so we want to be intentional about when they come into our funnel, when they start to sign up for Bitly, we don’t want to distract them with all the different things that we do because they might not be here to know about all the different things that we do. They’re here because they want to create a link.

Nikki Elbaz (15:22) Mm-hmm.

Tara Robertson (15:22) And so once they create that link and we’re able to understand how that link is performing. So we’ve got a bunch of data, it’s all anonymized, but we can go in and see how many clicks have you gotten on your link or how many scans have you gotten on your QR code? Well, then that’s a really great opportunity for us to say, hey, have you checked out the analytics and to understand what the performance of this looks like? And that’s where we’ll work very closely between our lifecycle and our product teams on how we use some of those product

Nikki Elbaz (15:47) Thank

Tara Robertson (15:49) triggers to then nudge customers along into the next point of value. And so for the Kaitlyns of the world, people that are looking for a link in bio tool, it’s often because what they’re looking for, like we talked about is a way to organize their content that is simple

Nikki Elbaz (16:05) Okay.

Tara Robertson (16:06) and useful for whatever they’re trying to point to, whether it’s a link in their social media, whether it’s a QR code in their storefront, what is the destination that they’re trying to get to and the thing they’re trying to do. And so that might be. say you’ve got somebody running a GoFundMe and they just want to have a simple way to collect donations or a simple way to share information about what the donations are for, then you might have a Pages tool to organize all of that in. And so for us, we’ll often collect when somebody comes in, what is the job that they’re looking to solve and then connect them with the product as a result. If we also connect some of those, psychographic or persona based data points on what they’re trying to also do. or what their title is or where they are, then it’s about creating lookalike segmentation. So if Kaitlyn’s somebody trying to build a GoFundMe or if Kaitlyn is a social media manager that just wants to be able to have a simple link in bio tool. We often will also share information on the product once they’ve achieved their first outcome to then get to the next one.

Nikki Elbaz (17:05) Yeah.

Nikki Elbaz (17:06) See this is exactly the tricky part. Someone comes to Bitly to shorten a link. That’s what they opted in for, and you do not want to get in the way of that. We’ve come a long way in terms of activation in understanding this. everyone has built their onboarding to be a laser focused experience on the aha moment. The problem is that we think that we’re not allowed to communicate anything past onboarding. Onboarding is the only window for education on the product. After that, unless you’re launching something new, telling them anything about the product feels quote unquote promotional. If we can only talk about the products and features that bring the user to the aha moment. So the one thing they came in to do. When else should we talk about everything else? Watch how Tara does it. She doesn’t wait a set number of days. She waits for the link to get its clicks. The moment the product has proved itself. The aha moment clears. Now she can move on to the next activation set. only after they have hit the outcome they came in for, do they have space for anything else? But that doesn’t mean that they don’t have space for anything else after they hit that aha moment.

Nikki Elbaz (18:02) Have you done some sort of campaign where you reactivate users who like not just the launch but some sort of in-app onboarding where you do little tool tips or little guided onboarding for the new tools for existing users.

Tara Robertson (18:19) Absolutely. And I would say what’s interesting is the more that we dig into data. So Bitly has two products, but I’m going to speak specifically to the Bitly product that most people know, bitly.com. We are a freemium model. And so we have a lot of users that are free users and part of our goal is often, you know, wanting to get them to value, but to, convert them into paying users to continue to get more value out of the product. and what’s fascinating is we’ve got some recent data we were looking at that for us as a freemium product led growth business or day zero, zero to 30 conversions are where you tend to see a lot of the volume of people coming and converting immediately to paid. What we actually have found that we’ve got cohorts of customers that can wait one to even eight years to convert to being a paid customer. And eight years, surprisingly, is 8% of our conversions, which is a pretty

Nikki Elbaz (19:17) Wow.

Tara Robertson (19:18) big amount of conversions. And so we are consistently working on keeping all of our customers and for users communicated to whether that’s through how do they continue to get more value out of the product they have access to, but then what are some of the components of the product that they don’t have access to that they might be getting somewhere else or that they’re missing out on, such as conversion data, for example, that we can then give them that visibility. Our Lifecycle team does a component of a couple different things. One is they’ve

Nikki Elbaz (19:50) and

Tara Robertson (19:50) got their typical conversion optimization onboarding series that runs for a certain period of time. And it’s really about optimizing those emails and getting to value, let’s say in that first zero to 30 days where we know we’ve got an immediacy of need. Those other customers, you have to continuously do what we call our drumbeat emails to make sure that we’re still giving them more insight into what’s happening, whether that’s through our product launch newsletter comms. a new product release, like next week, we’ve got a pretty big release coming out and we’ve

Nikki Elbaz (20:21) Thank you.

Tara Robertson (20:21) got different iterations built for all the different cohorts on how we communicate these different components. And for us, a launch isn’t just about the launch happened, then we move on to the next thing. It’s about, now we’ve got this area that we know continues to bring more value. How do we build this in consistently to our marketing activities so that the 8% of users that don’t convert until after they’ve been with us for eight years, we’re continuing to still make sure that they’re getting value and see more of the value on the other side.

Nikki Elbaz (20:53) It’s wild. It’s so wild.

Tara Robertson (20:54) I think this would fit best in a post-launch comms where we’re not taking people off of their initial onboarding journey, but a way we can try it out. going. And so those are other elements that I would kind of add into the, you can always do what you do with the optimization and the triggers, but there’s also never a bad time to add in those drumbeats later on in their journey to just remind people of the problem that you are trying to solve to the problem that they’re trying to solve. For us, know us more than as a link shortener. For our customer, Kaitlyn, it’s like, did you know that we actually have this part of the product But that’s kind of the first step we would take. The other one, and this is what I was pulling up I got this really great email last week that just says, there’s more to Claude than chat. And you know what Claude’s trying to do in this is that a lot of people know them as a chat tool. They’ve rolled out Cowork, they’ve rolled out Claude Code and all of these different ways

Nikki Elbaz (21:44) Okay.

Tara Robertson (21:45) that you can leverage code. And so it’s just a very simple, very smart email talking about the benefits you can get beyond the simplicity of the chat product. It’s not segmented down. I use Cowork and I use Claude Code, but I still got the

Nikki Elbaz (21:59) Mm-hmm.

Tara Robertson (22:00) email because I’m a Claude user. I still think it’s a really smart approach to just notifying your customers that, hey, did you know that there’s more? got it forwarded it to Devin and I was like, hey, this is super cool. I know we’ve done things like this in the past. Have we tried this again anytime recently with some of the new things that were rolling out? And he has a whole slew of really great ideas that he shared back with me on like, here’s what we tried, here’s what we’ve done with

Nikki Elbaz (22:16) Mm-hmm.

Tara Robertson (22:24) QR code and even link in bio within our different emails. Here’s how we found they were engaging, here’s how they weren’t.

Nikki Elbaz (22:30) love because we do need to get them to value and we do need to keep them very focused in the beginning. But then there is that trade off of not showing them other stuff. So I like this idea of using the drumbeat. And also you were talking about working with your product team to as well put some actual in-app stuff But the drumbeats is just a great way of keeping this consistent, everyone’s getting it. So I’m curious, because you said it wasn’t segmented. If you weren’t

Tara Robertson (22:56) Yes.

Nikki Elbaz (22:57) in your space where this is not relevant for you, would it be annoying to get that email where you’re like, hi, I use Cowork, I know Claude is more than chat.

Tara Robertson (23:06) good question. No, probably not. here I would say they’re segmented to a degree. There’s other elements as a consumer that I kept the email because I want to go back in and be like, am I using it enough? Because I know that’s an area that I want to. I will say, and maybe this is specific to just marketing technology in general, but right now as a marketing leader that runs a marketing technology team, but also is responsible for marketing technology budget. we are all looking at how things are growing, how things are evolving, how things are changing, are there ways you can consolidate, are there ways you can get smarter, what else is happening in the world? So I’m constantly trying to learn about all the different things that we have access to, to understand, does this continue to be a good use of our budget? Does this continue to be a good use of our time in where we’re investing and where the team is investing? And so there’s a separate element beyond the swipe file of there is more to Claude than chat. And I’m still trying to figure that out. What can I learn from this? That helps me as a consumer also go in and figure out where I can go. But I’m also a big learner. Every webinar that I get, I am like the habitual, I don’t show up and then I watch it later person.

Nikki Elbaz (24:16) Nice.

Tara Robertson (24:17) things that are relevant and things that I think matter, which is the part of building based on customer feedback. I’m sure that there’s a lot of feedback that they’re trying to build within their business that’s saying people need to know we have more. But then attending a lot of the webinars, I also know that people that do this get 16x efficiency. And that’s what I want. I want that level of efficiency. I want that continuous level of learning. And I want that to be part of what as we think about the way we communicate, both as marketers, but also as consumers, that end outcome or value piece that you’re looking for and what you’re communicating out. there’s segmentation or not, there’s always a level of connection to value, I would say, in every piece of content we create.

Nikki Elbaz (24:56) Right, and just hammering it home, that drumbeat again, that you may be using this. Are you using it as well as you can? Or also just, hey, I’m reminding you that you’re getting value when you use this. That’s a nice

Tara Robertson (25:07) Mm-hmm.

Nikki Elbaz (25:07) way of looking at it, I’ve always been a fan of being careful with over-segmenting because, hearing these things again and again can often be valuable, that we don’t have to segment them out just because they have been showing indications of usage. Like, let’s show it to them again. It’s useful for them. Yeah. Cool.

Tara Robertson (25:22) Totally, totally. And I think also like don’t overcomplicate it. That’s been part of the challenge I think that everybody runs into is trying to create all the different if then branches and logic. Like there is a place for those, but there’s also a place for just communications as long as you don’t over communicate.

Nikki Elbaz (25:39) So let’s go back to the Valentine’s Day poem. when I interviewed Devin, he told me he loves padding his content calendar with quirky national holidays. National Sneak Some Zucchini Onto Your Neighbor’s Porch is an excuse to show up in the inbox. And yes, he actually sent that one. August eighth, if you want to mark your calendar for next year. But the quirky holiday is only the excuse. What it actually holds is the repositioning message over and over and over again until it starts sinking in. Because that’s what makes the Perception flag different than the other eight flags. Most Change Flags are a gap you close once. A perception gap you don’t close at all. You wear it down. Somebody’s picture of what your product is Took years to set. And it was accurate at one point. It can’t get rewritten by a new navigation label or a launch announcement. Or a random tooltip. It can only get rewritten from all of those things When the same message comes from so many different directions. For a long enough period of time. When it stops being something novel and starts just becoming part of the reality. You’re changing what somebody already believes about you. It has to be water dripping on a rock. you can’t dump the bucket and expect the rock face to suddenly shift. Bitly never announced a proper repositioning. There was no rebrand moment, no we’re-a-platform-now campaign. They added one piece at a time, some built, some acquired. And people either caught on or didn’t. That’s how most repositioning actually happens. Nobody decides in a set moment in time. It usually just accumulates. And so that’s how we take it down, with accumulation as well. You seed it everywhere. The website, the dashboard, the empty states. The navigation, the email campaigns. And especially When they finish what they came in for, and are waiting for you to tell them more. You’ve got at least one Change Flag in your company right now. Probably more. I’m just being conservative. And churn is normal, yes, but there are so many things we can do to turn most churn into expansion. the quiz that I told you about in the beginning of the episode – I’m a little obsessed with it. It scores you against a composite of your competitors. It gives you an actual dollar figure per flag. And at the end of it, you get a short customized email course. Built around the flags that you need to tackle. Go take the quiz at nikkielbaz.com/quiz.

Tara Robertson (27:58) Now you’ve got me crawling all my G2 reviews to see what else we can learn from on the dislikes.