Ep. 18 ft. Jared Jones | Email Swipes - Nikki Elbaz

Nikki Elbaz: Our initial reaction was just like, I don’t know any way that we can send 19

emails without people being annoyed. I mean, even though the brand’s not going to be
around anymore, we don’t want to lose the brand love and the brand equity by just
spamming people.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, that’s really a challenge.
Nikki Elbaz: Welcome to email swipes, where we peek.
Nikki Elbaz: Behind the scenes at the emails that.
Nikki Elbaz: Catch your attention and earn their place in your swipe file.
Nikki Elbaz: Every other week, we’ll talk to an.
Nikki Elbaz: Email expert about an experiment they ran, and in the following episode,
we’ll dive.
Nikki Elbaz: Into the strategies and methods used in.
Nikki Elbaz: The email so you can inform and inspire your own email work. I’m Mickey
Guillbas, the copywriter behind winning emails for eight and nine figure sass and
ecommerce brands like Shopify, four, Sigmatic, and sprout social. And I know that
hearing the background stories to these emails will help you turn pie in the sky insights
into plug and play actions.
Nikki Elbaz: Ready to make inspiration tactical. Let’s go.
The drizzly blog is closing down after twelve years of service
Nikki Elbaz: First, let’s read today’s email. A farewell rant. Yep, we’re still closing down,
and that means it’s time for the gloves to come. Um.
Nikki Elbaz: Off.
Nikki Elbaz: Inhales deeply we’ve written you hundreds, if not thousands, of emails over
the last five years, and not, uh, one of them has properly expressed how much we truly
appreciate your loyalty, business, and, dare we say, friendship. Oh, we went there. You
have been an outstanding, nay, incredible, part of the drizzly journey. And we wouldn’t
trade it for all of King Midas’s gold. In your face, King Midas. Stick to tires. The
memories we made together will echo throughout eternity and hopefully make for at
least a full page in the yearbook. That is your life. Too brutal. Too offensive. Well, send
your complaints to driz. Leetakemailaccount.net biz rant over. We love you. A farewell
apology. Hey, Nikki. Now that we’ve had some time to think, we realized that our last
email, a, uh, farewell rant. Check your inbox. Might have featured a bit too radical
candor. So we’re, uh, now writing for the final, final time to apologize and reiterate how
much we truly will miss you. Seriously, this has been the most fulfilling email based
friendship we’ve ever had. Top ten, at least. Just think of all the memories we had. Are
you thinking about them? Because we are. Remember that time you ordered drinks for
that thing and everyone loved it? Classic you. Anyways, goodbye. It’s been real. A
farewell haiku. Two weeks till we close. Get your orders in now. Friends. Haikus are hard
to end shop now. Cheers. Thanks for twelve years of love, support and drinks. Mostly
the drinks, but those other things too. Cheers, friends.
Nikki Elbaz: Jared, thank you so much for joining us. Tell everyone, please, who you are
and what you do.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, happy to be here.
Jared Jones is currently the senior copywriter at Black and Decker
My name is Jared Jones, currently the senior copywriter at Black and Decker on their
campaigns team, uh, Stanley, Black and Decker. I’m specifically on the craftsman wing
of things. I guess I’m more known, if you could say that, in the copywriting world. Uh, for
sure, uh, for drizly, where I was a senior copywriter there for about five years.
Nikki Elbaz: Cool. Five years, nice. I actually was wondering, I don’t remember how long
ago, maybe it was five years ago, getting an email that said, hey, I’m Jared and I’m the
guy behind the emails. Was that when you first started or was that you kind of started
and wormed your way in and convinced everyone that you can be a face behind the
emails?
Nikki Elbaz: Oh, wow, you really are a, uh, follower.
Nikki Elbaz: Yes, I’m a huge. I told you I was a drizzly fan.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, that’s old school. I think that was about maybe a month or so in. I
was at Wayfair prior to that for about a year and a half. And yeah, basically I was kind of
drizzly’s first copywriter. They had, uh, an email associate basically doing everything
prior to me. And she had laid the groundwork for early, what, like, the brand voice was.
So their emails were already kind of held in high regard. So I was carrying the torch and
I just, that email was to be like, hey, you know, I’m all about, like, I think more brands
should just kind of talk about the people behind it. And I think it’s just a good way to
humanize the brand. So that was my attempt to, you know, do that.
Nikki Elbaz: Were there any responses to that? Like, did people feel like, oh, cool,
there’s a person here, and respond and, you know, make that personal introduction
themselves?
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, I mean, early on, I was also kind of running our social media. I was
basically writing all our copy across everything. I was doing our b two b newsletters. I
was doing any out of home stuff. We got was writing some earlier ads that we had and
yeah, definitely got some replies on Twitter about that. I got some in memoriams for our
previous copywriter who left a really great email, our previous, uh, email associate. And
I mean, we did a couple emails throughout the years. Like, I am kind of contradictory to
the whole humanizing the brand thing. Like, I was in a couple social videos and stuff. I
am not really a, I don’t want to be the center of attention. You know, I was not like
wanting to place myself in the center. But as we were developing this voice and we saw
it was getting a bit of play just on social and things like that, we were like, okay, let’s just
kind of lean into it a little bit. And for a few, couple years there I was signing off all the
emails with, you know, various, you know, sign offs, I guess you can call them, just like
Drizzly’s anonymous writer guy Drizly’s email, whatever,
00:05:00
Nikki Elbaz: and just kind of doing that for uh, quite a while.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, no, it’s definitely a very delicate balance of having faces behind your
brand and also making it be about the brand, making it be about the customer. And
then also there’s the whole debate about showcasing the people and then the people
leave and take their whole audience with them. So it’s always, there’s a lot of tricky bits
there.
How did you come in to develop the voice for drizzly
So. Okay, so you mentioned that the associate left, uh, with a bank and she had started
developing the voice. So what was that, the voice development? What was it like? How
did you come in and how much further did you develop it? What was that development
process like?
Nikki Elbaz: When I first came in, our marketing team at that time was around three or
five people. It was a really small team, really scrappy team. And you know, we were
sending way fewer emails at the time, again just because of capacity. But we had
basically a Google Doc of push notes and some subject lines and I could just get the
vibe from that that, you know, we were kind of leaning into which my specialty, I come
from a comedy background, so it was kind of this absurdist voice. There was a lot of,
you know, one of the pushes I remember that they had sent was like a horror story. And
it was like you’re the person at the party. The party ran out of beer. In the distant sirens,
you know, like the party descends into chaos. And I just saw from that and a couple of
the subject lines. I was like, okay, there’s something here. I mean, what originally drew
me to drizzly, I had just, you know, left my previous role and I was considering getting
back into freelance. I was uh, in journalism and slash blogging for years. I was a film
critic for a little while. I covered the UFC and mixed martial arts for years and I was
looking to potentially get back into that because I just enjoyed the kind of freedom and
time. Freedom. But then I saw the job posting for drizzly probably the day or two after I
had left the previous role, and it had that kind of voice to it, too. And I was like, okay,
there’s something here with this brand. I’ll apply and see what happens. And then within
a couple weeks, I had the role, which was great, because at that point, I was mostly
untested copywriter. I had only been in the, you know, copywriting about probably under
two years. So then it was just, you know, a lot of trial and experimentation as we
developed and we brought on other copywriters, and I was managing some of them. My
thought was always, test the fences. Like, I’d rather you send me something that’s too
weird and we can’t send it than something that’s too bland. So that’s kind of where I
leaned in immediately and was like, okay, let’s go as weird as possible and just see
what is accepted, what isn’t, where those kind of fences are. And that’s where we build
our earlier brand books and all of that around to develop the voice.
Nikki Elbaz: Very cool.
Did you hit any fences that you crossed too far that you saw
So did you hit any fences that you crossed too far that you saw? Okay, wait. This was
too far. We have to pull back.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, a lot. I mean, for me, it wasn’t necessarily that I saw the fences.
There were definitely times, I mean, we tried some early, like, kind of sale where it was
all handheld shot in the office, on our phones, and it was like, oh, the drizzly
extravaganza bonanza, uh, deal. And it just, like, it was maybe a little too absurdist
where I don’t think we had quite a. Developed the following that was aware of our voice
as much at that point.
Nikki Elbaz: Right. They took you seriously.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, exactly.
Nikki Elbaz: These guys are just weird.
Nikki Elbaz: I don’t know how they ever did. But it was tough because I wasn’t in the
position necessarily where the blowback was going to come directly to me. So I was
always nice. Yeah. Which is an easy position to be in. You know, it’s a, uh, oh, well, we
should just try this. Let’s just try this. Let’s get weirder with. Let’s get weirder with it. And
most of the fences were determined by people we brought on or other teams where
they’re like, what are we doing? What is this email? I mean, this is basically a meme.
Like, this doesn’t have any marketing at all in it. And I was like, yeah, I know. It’s
branding. That, uh, you know, that little difference only takes you so far. After a while,
you have to be like, okay, I guess we actually have to drive action from people and we
have to do things that, you know, make sense as a marketer, but that’s kind of where
the fence is. And then the fence is kind of over the years, as we got bigger, you know,
they kind of started to narrow a bit just in terms of we wanted to, you know,
understandably drive again more action, convert people a lot faster, test more, which,
uh, you know, I’m always of the mindset of, say the weird thing, do the weird thing. Like
a lot of brands now are, I think, unfortunately try to appeal to everyone and then end up
not appealing to anyone as a result. You know, it’s trying to be a part of every audience.
But as we got bigger and we tried to, you know, if there is something that you can test
and if it turns out that the bland thing is better than the, the brand thing, then that’s what
you got to do. Which wasn’t always the case with us, but that’s just where we found
those fences over the years, is testing subject lines, even though, you know, a lot of our
weirdest subject lines some, we had one for Halloween one year that was just, ah, uh,
like the whole time. And it got a lot of social play, it got a lot of clicks. It wasn’t always
strict fences, but that’s kind of how we found them a lot of the time.
Nikki Elbaz: Well, that was one thing that I found cool, was that as drizly grew, it kept its
voice, whereas many times you’ll see brands start to, uh, like you said, narrow, but
00:10:00
Nikki Elbaz: they still kept it, which was cool. And also there was like a nice balance
where the website was. The UX was first, you know, there were little things in different
places, but the whole shopping experience was very standard, basic, you know, it was
within the emails and the social media and the all that kind of thing, which is where
more of the relationship is happening and the site is like the conversion site. So that,
you know, it was a good balance. It was very well done.
Nikki Elbaz: Thanks. Yeah, I mean, throughout our years, as we kind of brought more
people on, there was definitely a lot of internal debate. There was a lot of our brand
team really pushing to try and get things out there that necessarily other teams might
not have wanted. And so it was tough. It was definitely a fight to maintain that brand
over the years and push it because for me, we were a very email heavy brand and I
was trying to, over the years, transfer that to our social media and try to bring more of
that voice to other channels. I, uh, for years wanted to just completely overhaul our
whole site. Like every product page there’s a great brand. I believe they’re UK based,
called Firebox, and they have the greatest product PDP description pages for
everything they have and that are all just little jokes here and there. And I wanted to do
that for years, just kind of, you know, it was one of those big projects that we just never
could get around to. But because we were operating so heavily in email, that was where
we fought hardest for the brand, just because that was everything we had. Uh, not
everything we had. We had a great social team and we had other areas, but we weren’t
able to, like, make the changes that we wanted on the product side as much. And social
was, you know, a whole other team with their own view of where the brand should go.
And we collaborated with them a lot. But, yeah, the email was, it was a push and pull for
sure.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah. Because risks are risks. People are always uncomfortable and you
really gotta keep justifying it.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah.
Convertkit is the only marketing platform built for creators by creators
Nikki Elbaz: So let’s talk about this particular set of emails when you found out. Okay,
Drizly’s gone. They’re going, going, gone. What were your thoughts there in terms of,
okay, we’re planning the goodbye now? What?
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if it’s fortunately or unfortunately. The same day
that we found out we were shutting down in x months, we found out about this
campaign. It was already in plan. So we found out that same day, hey, we have this, this
campaign. And, you know, for legal reasons I can’t really get into, we found out that
basically we had to send out around 19 emails.
Nikki Elbaz: Wow.
Nikki Elbaz: I think 20 or so pushes. Um, some were to signal like the days of different
services were ending. Like, we have shipping in addition to just the on demand delivery.
So we had to stagger it for a while. And our initial reaction was just like, I don’t know
any way that we can send 19 emails without people being annoyed. I mean, even
though the brand’s not gonna be around anymore, we don’t want to lose the brand love
and the brand equity by just spamming people.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, that’s really a challenge. Wow.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, the idea was kind of born out of that.
Nikki Elbaz: We’re about to take an ad break, but I’m not just gonna give you an ad that
wants to sell you something. I’m gonna give you an ad that, yes, will hopefully sell you
something, but will also educate you on something email related. So don’t go anywhere.
If you want to start your own email list, I have an offer for you. Sign up to Convertkit
using the affiliate link. You’ll find in the show notes and I’ll give you a 30 minutes
consult. Free now. Free consults are nice and all, but they’re not exactly a reason to tie
yourself to an email platform you’re not in love with. So let me tell you why I think you
should use Convertkit to build your email list. Convertkit calls themselves the only
marketing platform built for creators by creators. And it’s not just a cute slogan, they
actually live up to this. There are countless examples of how they serve our particular
niche better than anyone else, and it makes all the difference. Let me just give you one.
Google just announced some new anti spam sending requirements that threw the email
world into a tizzy. And one of the recommendations to keep our emails out of spam was
to verify your email sending domain. Sounds techie. Yeah, it was. It was another techie
admin task that was really annoying to deal with. Most email platforms slapped up, um,
some help docs and called it a day. Convertkit partnered with the software that did the
job in the convertkit dashboard in a few clicks. It was so helpful and it was so proactive.
They know we don’t have it teams, they know we have too many tasks on our plate.
They know that tech can feel really overwhelming for a solopreneur. So they figured out
a solution. That’s just one tiny example I could go on, but we’ve got to get back to our
show.
We had two ideas for the campaign. The one we ended up going with
was the sunset
Meanwhile, if you’re interested, head down to the show notes, check out the affiliate link
and earn yourself a free consult.
Nikki Elbaz: We had two ideas. The one we ended up going with, part of the inspiration
was just the language we were using in our briefs was the sunsetting of drizzly. So I
kind of, this is going to way date me because it’s even way before me. But there’s this
movie, there’s this western movie called Shane that was out in the fifties. It was
considered the last western. And at the end of the movie is a guy literally riding off into
the sunset. Right.
Nikki Elbaz: It’s a classic. Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah. So that’s where everything, and it was kind of signaling like the end
of the westerns prominence in America. I was a film student. Can you tell? Um, but, uh,
so
00:15:00
Nikki Elbaz: that image kind of became the template for the imagery we used in the
campaign. And then just knowing that we had 19 goodbyes to send, I was like, how this
is going to be? And this was kind of, my pitch was like, this is going to be annoying to
people. Let’s lean into that. There’s this movie called they came together, it’s kind of like
a satirical romantic comedy. It’s got Paul Rudd, Amy Schumer, and there’s a scene in it
where Paul Rudd and I think his brother in the movie, it’s, uh, Schmidt from new girl.
Like, I forget the actor’s name, but they’re basically in a room, and, like, one of them is
giving him advice, and they’re just continuously walking away from each other, and they
keep turning back and going, hey, thanks. And, like, hey, brother, thanks. And they just
keep saying it over and over again until it goes through that cycle of, like, it’s not funny,
it’s funny again, you know? And I was like, let’s just do that. But as an email. So that
was the primary pitch. I mean, uh, my second pitch was, let’s just send the same email
20 times in a row.
Nikki Elbaz: Oh, gosh.
Nikki Elbaz: And they were like, yeah. Because basically my thought was, you know, we
have this time period that we all have to be primarily, we should be looking for new jobs.
This email series might not be the biggest thing in our, you know, we have bigger life
issues. So my other pitch was, let’s just do the same 120 times. And that kind of shut
down. Um, so we’re just like, okay, let’s do one where, you know, you know, for me, it’s
writing an email. You know, I can write up some silly copy, like some of the ones we’ve
done. I mean, the haiku one, for example, that was like 15 minutes of work. Our
designers still have to do a couple hours worth of work coming up with all this stuff. So
that’s where we came up with the idea of, like, let’s do this sunset, the Shane sunset,
but with the bear just kind of getting closer so they didn’t have to do as much work and
it wasn’t as daunting a task for them. And that’s kind of where it ended up going.
Nikki Elbaz: I love how you took the idea of riding off into the sunset and put it for the
imagery also, not just the feeling, uh, and the vibe for the copy. It’s great.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, I mean, I’m a screenwriter for fun, kind of outside of when I’m
working. So I do think visually I was. I went to school again for filmmaking and music
production, and I’ve always been a kind of visual thinker, even when I write music and I
think of the visuals that go along with it. So it’s always been a, uh, a part of how I write.
And this one was just one where I’m like, I think it’s a fitting, not metaphor, but I think it
fits it. And it’s not a ton of work for our designers to just, you know, because we gotta
get out there and start finding new jobs, essentially.
Nikki Elbaz: You’re taking care of your team. That’s awesome.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, exactly.
Nikki Elbaz: Uh, that’s great. But I love also what you said in terms of the, uh. It’s funny.
It’s not funny. It’s funny. It’s not funny because that’s exactly how people experience
these kinds of things, where when you lean into something that’s so obvious, it’s so
funny, but then it’s like, oh, but it’s obvious. I can’t find this funny anymore, and then it is
funny again. So that’s really. Yeah, perceptive. That’s cool. That’s awesome.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah. I’m an unabashed family guy fan. Um, I think, you know, they might
miss, like, five out of every ten jokes, but some of them, like, I think it’s underrated how
they have probably changed how we deal with comedy. And a lot of their jokes, whether
it’s, like, flashback style humor, which you see in everything now, or that kind of joke
where it’s just one long through the boring part back to funny again. I love that kind of
running bit. And, you know, whenever we can kind of infuse that kind of humor and that
personality into what I do, I. I lean into it as hard as I can.
Nikki Elbaz: It’s really true. There are so many things that people love to make fun of.
Like, it’s not funny, you know, but everyone loves it, so clearly there’s something there
that, you know, you don’t want to admit it because, like, it’s too cool to say that you like
it, but you do.
Nikki Elbaz: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, half my brainstorming strategy, if you could call it
that, is, like, I’m never afraid to look like the dumbest person in the room by throwing
something out there. And I think, you know, especially in the age of Zoom and
everything, where it’s even more awkward, maybe, than going in. I mean, I’m, you know,
I love working remotely, but I think maybe one of the areas where it has a little, you
know, comes up short is that kind of brainstorming, because it makes it even more
awkward for people to kind of throw an idea out there and just leave it hanging in open
space. And that’s never been a concern of mine. If people think I’m the dumbest person
in the room for the idea I pitch, so be it.
Nikki Elbaz: It’s really true.
Nikki Elbaz: Especially if it’s like, wait, you’re on mute. What did you just say? And it’s
like, forget it. Like, I’ll just keep my idea in my head. Yes, for sure. I thought you were
going to say your, uh, strategy for, uh, ideas was watching family guy. Like, that’s your
method.
Nikki Elbaz: It’s definitely.
Nikki Elbaz: I mean, this is working time, boss.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, this is. Can I get paid to do this? That’d be amazing.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, exactly.
Nikki Elbaz: We inspired a thing or two out throughout the years, but, yeah, I don’t know
if it’s defined. I don’t really have a definable creative process.
Nikki Elbaz: I don’t think it’s hard to define a creative process. There are definitely steps
and things that you can do, but to really lay it out, like, part of it is that lightning bolt, but
there is also all the steps you have to lay out before, but they can vary. And, um, it also
depends so much on the context and what the project is and who you’re working with.
At drizly, I had a great team of people. Sarah Holcomb, she was our
head of copy in particular
And there’s just a lot.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
00:20:00
Nikki Elbaz: our brand slash creative team kind of shifted names throughout the year. At
drizly, I had a great team of people. Sarah Holcomb, she was our head of copy in
particular, is just an amazing creative and an amazing leader. She was someone who
would go to bat for our team when we had these out there ideas. And then also Tony
Jorgensen was a guy who worked, uh, he was the copywriter who kind of, I brought into
the team. He was also just like, he was a comedy first background writer. He didn’t
really, if I remember correctly, he kind of didn’t have a huge copywriting background
before we started, um, before we hired him on. And I kind of rallied for him to saying,
you know, I think copywriting skills can be taught to a degree. Like, comedy skills are
really hard to teach to someone. It’s really hard to teach a sense of humor and to teach
a frame of reference for all these things. And it was great to have those kind of creatives
to work alongside with. And also, uh, you know, I’d be remiss if I didn’t shout out Kirk
Anderson, who is, ah, a guy we brought in, he was our kind of head of social, and he is
just, he worked for Taco Bell. He’s worked for a lot of these great brands, and he just
kind of helped us sit in that room and have that awkward airtime where we just threw
ideas at the wall. And it just, you know, m it made us all kind of have to step up our
game and be like, okay, these are. Yeah, these. These are what are feasible, because a
lot of the time when you’re pitching ideas you have no idea of, like, I mean, we’d
sometimes get an idea of the budget. We’d sometimes not. You know, you just, oh, let’s
rent a giant truck and turn it into a pool and throw a drizzly pool party. That’s
deliverable. That was an idea we had, like, back in the day, and it was just. But how any
of this, you know, you need those production people that know the real, like, the
plausibility of being able to do any of these things. And that’s another, I guess, fence.
But that’s at least a fence where you can kind of begin to operate within, in terms of the
creative process. So definitely it helps to have good people around you. For sure.
Nikki Elbaz: Oh, for sure.
Nikki Elbaz: For sure.
Nikki Elbaz: It reminds me when I was in college and I went for advertising, and we
always had these crazy ideas. Like, you know, the teacher would give us a brief, and we
would just come up with these nutty ideas. And I was always like, so this isn’t possible.
We wouldn’t have the budget for this. This wouldn’t be possible in the timeframe. This
wouldn’t be possible because x, y, Z. And the response was always like, okay, go for the
crazy, and then pare it down. We didn’t actually pare it down in school, but eventually
they told us, you know, once you get to an agency, like, go for the crazy, and then you’ll
pare it down in agency work. And, like, that’s how you get the great ideas, is you just
have to go all the way.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah. Yep. You always want to have, like, roughly, you know, three ideas. I’d
say you have your really conservative one. You have your kind of middle of the road,
and then you have your extreme one, and then it’s kind of the order in which you pitch
those things. I think sometimes that can lead to one. You kind of. You go from your least
crazy to your craziest to then your middle of the road. So then it doesn’t feel like the
craziest one is maybe that crazy because you’ve had the second, the idea after that to
like, okay, like, sometimes you do some tricks of just, you know, maybe pitch the middle
of the road one a little less, you know, with a little less vigor, something like that, to just.
You want to capture that. Like, you know, it’s mind games, I guess, in a fun way.
Nikki Elbaz: That’s great. I never thought about that. You know, there’s always, like,
price anchoring and all that kind of thing. But yeah, when you’re trying to get ideas,
that’s great, that’s smart idea.
Denzly wrote satirical emails about going out of business to boost
conversions
Cool. Okay, so what were you expecting the feedback and results to be for these
emails? I mean, actually there were conversion results. You were trying to get people to
get their last orders in. So that’s interesting. Okay. It wasn’t just branding.
Nikki Elbaz: I mean, at the time of writing them, I wasn’t super concerned with
conversion necessarily. Um, just knowing a, how many we had to write. Um, basically,
like we had a kind of, not a failsafe, but, uh, basically the notion was like, if these emails
aren’t converting after the first few, we’re going to pull the plug because we don’t want
to send 30 emails if we don’t necessarily. Um, yeah. So for me, I was basically like, the
happiest reactions I got on social were people basically, you know, saying, we need to
check on the drizzly guy. Is he okay? That’s kind of the reaction I was hoping for. I want
people to just generally be concerned for my well being, uh, while reading my stuff. But
luckily the, you know, whether it was just the nostalgia or, you know, I don’t know if it
can necessarily be, I think a big part of it obviously is the way that we went about
saying we’re going out of business. You know, we kind of had this, the same kind of, you
know, irreverent style to it. Um, it did, if I recall correctly, have like pretty great
conversions for a lot of the email. It did up, you know, we saw a spike in orders for the
majority of them, I think. But, yeah, it wasn’t the top of mind when writing them.
Nikki Elbaz: Right.
Nikki Elbaz: Just like, I don’t know, let’s just go out with a bang, let’s have some fun.
And, you know, people were sharing all these reactions with me and there was even
some on LinkedIn who were like, should I be offended by this email? Like, if I was
working at this company and I saw this cavalier of an email about going out of business,
I’d be upset. I was like, yeah, but I mean, I was also the one who was going to be out of
a job. Part of the effective class here. So, um, yeah, there’s reactions all across the
board. Most of them seem positive, but, uh, yes, I was just
00:25:00
Nikki Elbaz: hoping that if we sold some extra product, that’s great. But as long as
people kind of felt it was a fitting kind of end to the brand, I was happy with that.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, for sure. It’s interesting also because when you have an irreverent
kind of voice. You will always get those kinds of reactions where they’re, like, kind of
offended, but kind of not because they know you’re being irreverent, but they’re not
sure. So, uh, it fits into the whole vibe. So it works.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There were definitely, like, we, you know, when
Covid first started, for instance, you know, it was kind of tough to. That was like a real
testing point, and that was early into my career at drizly of how do we navigate this very
serious thing? Sending out very serious emails about, you know, this store might be
closed. Here’s how to get orders in and how do we still do that while still being the jester
of sorts? You know, that was definitely like a test. But other than that, I don’t think many
people are opening up emails from an alcohol delivery company expecting, like, a kind
of serious take on world news or anything like that. You know, as long as you’re not,
like, offending any, you know, religious or protected class or anything like that. I don’t
see how someone could possibly really be offended by anything. Um, but then again,
we did have an email once that it was basically like someone was offended because it
was from the. We were talking about right handers versus left handers, and they were a
left hander, and they were. They wrote an email to us saying how offended they were by
it. So you can find whole new ways to offend people that you didn’t know exist, which, I
mean, you know, I’m not one of these, uh, uh, I’m not one of these, oh, cancel culture,
cancel. You know, I. Especially when you’re writing for a brand where you’re trying to
make money, but it is, um. Um, you know, you just have to. Again, that’s just another fun
way of finding the fences, you know?
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, it’s true. That’s a good point.
Nikki Elbaz: No, left handed jokes. Don’t do those anymore.
Nikki Elbaz: Those are too much.
Nikki Elbaz: That was a simple one. I was like, okay, I think that’s not going to affect us
too much. If you’re good at comedy and you’re good at this, you can find ways around
any fence that’s putting.
Nikki Elbaz: You’ll find other jokes besides the left handed jokes.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, can we do a left foot? Is left foot. Is that okay?
Nikki Elbaz: Uh, that’s great.
M: It wasn’t really emotional hitting send in any way
Was it emotional hitting send in any way, or was it just like, we have these 19 emails we
got to get out, we’re just hitting send.
Nikki Elbaz: It wasn’t until, like, kind of maybe a few days after all of it was said and
done. You know, we kind of planned these things so far in advance that you’re not really
living in the moment and writing them in the moment. I mean, when I first started there,
you know, before we had project managers and things like that, we were writing this
email was written and it was sending in an hour. You know, you had to get this done.
And luckily we got to a place where we were now a couple months ahead of schedule,
roughly. And so it wasn’t really like that emotional until afterward because, you know,
this was a brand that I put a lot of myself into and it was, you know, my first kind of
bigger copywriting undertaking. I’d never really had an ability to control or define a
brand’s voice to that degree. So, ah, it definitely, by the end, knowing it was over, you
know, obviously there’s the, the feelings of, you know, there’s wrapped up in failure.
You’re like, oh, I guess people didn’t really like this brand that much. M is that, was that
the issue? And, you know, it wasn’t the, uh, do or die factor at the end of the day, but,
you know, wrapped in with all of that was just seeing the outpouring of appreciation and
love from all these people of this thing that, you know, I’m just sitting behind a computer
at the end of the day writing this stuff. And this is something, you know, when I was a
blogger journalist, it kind of was a similar thing where you don’t see the millions of
people that are reading this thing, uh, on a daily basis. There’s just you and you’re kind
of in your corner of the world. And seeing that people from all over the country are
reading emails, which, you know, is not, you never, I mean, you get the numbers back
on how many people are reading each one sometimes, but you’re never really, like,
thinking about how, you know, marketing might impact someone’s life to that degree. I’m
always just trying to, if I can make someone smile, that’s like my job. If I can make
someone laugh, I’m satisfied. But you never seeing all these people be like, oh, I’m
gonna miss these emails. I’m like, wow, you. So they’re, you know, I’ve always said that,
like, us in the marketing departments tend to over index. I think, like, oh, we don’t want
this email to sound too much like this one we sent. And I’m like, guys, no one is
following these, like, chapters of a book. We’re gonna be okay if there’s similar
language in here, but then you hear these things and you’re like, oh, I guess some
people are.
Nikki Elbaz: People are actually reading them.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, they’re reading everyone. I mean, you. You knew the ones from five
years ago.
Nikki Elbaz: I can’t say I remember them all.
Nikki Elbaz: But, no, I can’t say I do either.
Nikki Elbaz: That’s true. After you said so many also.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Okay. If you were to go back in time and perfect these emails, would you do
anything differently?
Nikki Elbaz: You know, uh, we had, like, in our original pitch, which was a little bit more
thorough than we ended up going with, because, again, we were trying to save our
designers and everyone else some time and not have to put time that they could spend
finding a new job and bigger life issues. But originally, our pitch included, like, oh, let’s
do one where, you know, we are gathering, like, fake made fan art from the years and,
like, fake love. And then we could do one of, like, fake hate that people or real hate that
people have sent us over the years. I was like, we could go through every step, and that
was one thing we pitched originally, and then it just was not feasible, the amount of time
that we would need to either design or gather
00:30:00
Nikki Elbaz: all this info. So that would probably be the one thing I would change about
it. But other than that, I think it felt great. Like, it wrapped up in a way that I think did the
brand justice.
You recently joined Stanley Black and Decker as director of marketing
Nikki Elbaz: Okay, so now that you have this new role, you kind of have to prove
yourself. What are you planning? Do you have any creative freedom? What are things
now like for you?
Nikki Elbaz: I’m very early into this role, so I’m still in that onboarding stage. I haven’t
really gotten a lot of detail necessarily on the kind of bigger projects that I’ll be working
on. So I’m very limited right now in just terms of what I know about the brand. But that
said, you know, I joined, and they, they immediately were like, based on your portfolio,
we think you’d work with this craftsman brand better. They kind of have this campaign
going now with kind of eighties rock, eighties metal dad kind of thing, which is a little
more of their comedic. They’re the, it’s a more comedic brand. And luckily, I have this
music background, too. So it’s definitely, uh, you know, these brands, it’s a tough
transition going from a brand that is willing to try a lot to a brand that has, you know,
been around for 100 years. A lot of these Stanley Black and Decker brands have been
around 100 plus years. And, you know, they have their ways that they’re set in. But part
of the thing that drew me to this role was their marketing department is kind of
undergoing the shift of bringing more things in, internal brand studio. And they kind of
want to push that kind of brand led marketing now. So it’s kind of, in a way, it feels like
I’m back in the beginning of the early, drizzly days of like, okay, let’s try to. I think the
fences might be a little tighter, but we can still kind of test them a bit because we are
kind of undertaking this new venture. But I’m hoping if I can do something that’s, you
know, 30% as weird as what I was able to do with Drizly, I think that would be a start.
Definitely more conservative of a brand, but that’s the hope, is to get to a place where
we can do some really weird, uh, by their standards, um, stuff.
Nikki Elbaz: Very cool.
What’s your favorite brand to get emails from and why
Okay, so last question. What is your favorite brand now that we don’t have drizly to, uh,
swipe emails from, what’s your favorite brand to get emails from and why?
Nikki Elbaz: I mean, the obvious one, which I’m sure everyone says I am a huge liquid
death fan. I mean, not just because I’m a metalhead, but, like, I love their stuff. I love
how it touches everything they do. Like, it’s on their email, it’s on their can, it’s in their
experiences, it’s on their product, uh, page. You know, it is. Everything is so. And it’s a
good example again of, like, this is a brand who’s not trying to be something for
everybody. We know what we are and we know the audience we’re going after. I mean,
obviously they’re expanding over time and trying to fit new audiences, but it’s really like
people want that. I don’t know if it was a TikTok or something that was like, say the
weird thing. People want realness, that liquid death is like the encapsulation of that. I
think they are. They know what they’re about. And I just love their brand. Email
specifically, though, another good one is they’re a sunglasses company called Gooder.
They’re very much like. They do a lot of fun partnerships. I think they just did one with,
like, street fighter that just came out. And again, really know what they’re doing in terms
of really, like, they know what their brand is, they know what they’re about. Their emails
are very drizzly, coded, or maybe were good or coded. I don’t know. I didn’t know about
them until deep into my drizzly tenure. But, um, they write with this kind of absurdist,
irreverent voice. Chubby’s is another one. I really like Chubby’s stuff. They’re not a
brand I would probably buy stuff from necessarily, though. It’s a, you know, it’s a men’s
shorts company. They’re not really my style, but, like, their social presence and their
emails, um, are just. They’re great. Chubby’s is a little more bro, I, er, I guess you’d say.
Which, again, it knows its audience. Um. Um, but yeah, those are a few of the great
ones.
Nikki Elbaz: I think there’s something I feel like, too, observing other people’s niches.
Like, where you see, like, okay, they’re talking to those people and I’m not one of those
people, but I’m gonna watch how they do it. Like, that can be very good inspiration to,
uh, apply to, you know, whatever niche you, you are. Surfing.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, I mean, a while back at drizzly, uh, like, I like, you know, I covered the
UFC for a while. I like to watch wrestling occasionally. And to me, it’s like, as opposed to
being one of this brand that is trying to be all things for all people, I like to find little
niche audiences and attack those within. And, you know, that’s where you can kind of
build out brand loyalty from. Years ago for drizzly, I did a, uh, subject line that was just,
it’s Friday. You know what that means. And it was a reference to a guy, Brody Lee. His
name was, he was a professional wrestler, and basically his whole online Persona was
just, it’s blank day. You know what that means was every tweet he ever sent, that’s the
whole thing. And unfortunately, he had just passed away unexpectedly, probably like a
week before. Maybe it was that week. And so I kind of did this email as a tribute to him.
And it got up to the point online where, like, guys from, I, uh, think he’s an AEw, which
is a wrestling organization. They were, like, responding to the tweet. Like, the people’s
tweets about, like, look at drizzly. Is this a, uh, Brody Lee reference? And, you know, me
running the Twitter at the time was like, you know, it was like, that’s great.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Uh,
00:35:00
Nikki Elbaz: so it’s just like finding those things. I mean, you can earn someone’s loyalty
forever with stuff like that. And again, it’s just like finding those niche audiences and just
not exploiting them, but, like, you know, leaning into it.
Nikki Elbaz: Mm hmm. Yeah. Talking to them, finding that relevance, finding that
connection.
Nikki Elbaz: Exactly.
All right, this has been very enlightening. Thanks for joining me for
email story time
Nikki Elbaz: All right, this has been very enlightening. Lots of like, little pieces that I
can’t wait to like, dig into. So thank you so much. This was awesome.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, thanks for having me. This is great. I never thought my first podcast
would be about emails, but this is great conversation.
Nikki Elbaz: You’ll have to get one for music and for wrestling. All your other interests
too.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, I guess so.
Nikki Elbaz: Thanks for joining me for email story time. If you enjoyed today’s story, give
this podcast a review so email marketers like you can have more fun with email. See
you next week when we dig into this story’s takeaways.
00:35:44

like, okay, like, sometimes you do some tricks of just, you know, maybe pitch the middle
of the road one a little less, you know, with a little less vigor, something like that, to just.
You want to capture that. Like, you know, it’s mind games, I guess, in a fun way.
Nikki Elbaz: That’s great. I never thought about that. You know, there’s always, like,
price anchoring and all that kind of thing. But yeah, when you’re trying to get ideas,
that’s great, that’s smart idea.
Denzly wrote satirical emails about going out of business to boost
conversions
Cool. Okay, so what were you expecting the feedback and results to be for these
emails? I mean, actually there were conversion results. You were trying to get people to
get their last orders in. So that’s interesting. Okay. It wasn’t just branding.
Nikki Elbaz: I mean, at the time of writing them, I wasn’t super concerned with
conversion necessarily. Um, just knowing a, how many we had to write. Um, basically,
like we had a kind of, not a failsafe, but, uh, basically the notion was like, if these emails
aren’t converting after the first few, we’re going to pull the plug because we don’t want
to send 30 emails if we don’t necessarily. Um, yeah. So for me, I was basically like, the
happiest reactions I got on social were people basically, you know, saying, we need to
check on the drizzly guy. Is he okay? That’s kind of the reaction I was hoping for. I want
people to just generally be concerned for my well being, uh, while reading my stuff. But
luckily the, you know, whether it was just the nostalgia or, you know, I don’t know if it
can necessarily be, I think a big part of it obviously is the way that we went about
saying we’re going out of business. You know, we kind of had this, the same kind of, you

know, irreverent style to it. Um, it did, if I recall correctly, have like pretty great
conversions for a lot of the email. It did up, you know, we saw a spike in orders for the
majority of them, I think. But, yeah, it wasn’t the top of mind when writing them.
Nikki Elbaz: Right.
Nikki Elbaz: Just like, I don’t know, let’s just go out with a bang, let’s have some fun.
And, you know, people were sharing all these reactions with me and there was even
some on LinkedIn who were like, should I be offended by this email? Like, if I was
working at this company and I saw this cavalier of an email about going out of business,
I’d be upset. I was like, yeah, but I mean, I was also the one who was going to be out of
a job. Part of the effective class here. So, um, yeah, there’s reactions all across the
board. Most of them seem positive, but, uh, yes, I was just
00:25:00
Nikki Elbaz: hoping that if we sold some extra product, that’s great. But as long as
people kind of felt it was a fitting kind of end to the brand, I was happy with that.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, for sure. It’s interesting also because when you have an irreverent
kind of voice. You will always get those kinds of reactions where they’re, like, kind of
offended, but kind of not because they know you’re being irreverent, but they’re not
sure. So, uh, it fits into the whole vibe. So it works.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There were definitely, like, we, you know, when
Covid first started, for instance, you know, it was kind of tough to. That was like a real
testing point, and that was early into my career at drizly of how do we navigate this very

serious thing? Sending out very serious emails about, you know, this store might be
closed. Here’s how to get orders in and how do we still do that while still being the jester
of sorts? You know, that was definitely like a test. But other than that, I don’t think many
people are opening up emails from an alcohol delivery company expecting, like, a kind
of serious take on world news or anything like that. You know, as long as you’re not,
like, offending any, you know, religious or protected class or anything like that. I don’t
see how someone could possibly really be offended by anything. Um, but then again,
we did have an email once that it was basically like someone was offended because it
was from the. We were talking about right handers versus left handers, and they were a
left hander, and they were. They wrote an email to us saying how offended they were by
it. So you can find whole new ways to offend people that you didn’t know exist, which, I
mean, you know, I’m not one of these, uh, uh, I’m not one of these, oh, cancel culture,
cancel. You know, I. Especially when you’re writing for a brand where you’re trying to
make money, but it is, um. Um, you know, you just have to. Again, that’s just another fun
way of finding the fences, you know?
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, it’s true. That’s a good point.
Nikki Elbaz: No, left handed jokes. Don’t do those anymore.
Nikki Elbaz: Those are too much.
Nikki Elbaz: That was a simple one. I was like, okay, I think that’s not going to affect us
too much. If you’re good at comedy and you’re good at this, you can find ways around
any fence that’s putting.
Nikki Elbaz: You’ll find other jokes besides the left handed jokes.

Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, can we do a left foot? Is left foot. Is that okay?
Nikki Elbaz: Uh, that’s great.
M: It wasn’t really emotional hitting send in any way
Was it emotional hitting send in any way, or was it just like, we have these 19 emails we
got to get out, we’re just hitting send.
Nikki Elbaz: It wasn’t until, like, kind of maybe a few days after all of it was said and
done. You know, we kind of planned these things so far in advance that you’re not really
living in the moment and writing them in the moment. I mean, when I first started there,
you know, before we had project managers and things like that, we were writing this
email was written and it was sending in an hour. You know, you had to get this done.
And luckily we got to a place where we were now a couple months ahead of schedule,
roughly. And so it wasn’t really like that emotional until afterward because, you know,
this was a brand that I put a lot of myself into and it was, you know, my first kind of
bigger copywriting undertaking. I’d never really had an ability to control or define a
brand’s voice to that degree. So, ah, it definitely, by the end, knowing it was over, you
know, obviously there’s the, the feelings of, you know, there’s wrapped up in failure.
You’re like, oh, I guess people didn’t really like this brand that much. M is that, was that
the issue? And, you know, it wasn’t the, uh, do or die factor at the end of the day, but,
you know, wrapped in with all of that was just seeing the outpouring of appreciation and
love from all these people of this thing that, you know, I’m just sitting behind a computer
at the end of the day writing this stuff. And this is something, you know, when I was a
blogger journalist, it kind of was a similar thing where you don’t see the millions of

people that are reading this thing, uh, on a daily basis. There’s just you and you’re kind
of in your corner of the world. And seeing that people from all over the country are
reading emails, which, you know, is not, you never, I mean, you get the numbers back
on how many people are reading each one sometimes, but you’re never really, like,
thinking about how, you know, marketing might impact someone’s life to that degree. I’m
always just trying to, if I can make someone smile, that’s like my job. If I can make
someone laugh, I’m satisfied. But you never seeing all these people be like, oh, I’m
gonna miss these emails. I’m like, wow, you. So they’re, you know, I’ve always said that,
like, us in the marketing departments tend to over index. I think, like, oh, we don’t want
this email to sound too much like this one we sent. And I’m like, guys, no one is
following these, like, chapters of a book. We’re gonna be okay if there’s similar
language in here, but then you hear these things and you’re like, oh, I guess some
people are.
Nikki Elbaz: People are actually reading them.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, they’re reading everyone. I mean, you. You knew the ones from five
years ago.
Nikki Elbaz: I can’t say I remember them all.
Nikki Elbaz: But, no, I can’t say I do either.
Nikki Elbaz: That’s true. After you said so many also.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah.

Nikki Elbaz: Okay. If you were to go back in time and perfect these emails, would you do
anything differently?
Nikki Elbaz: You know, uh, we had, like, in our original pitch, which was a little bit more
thorough than we ended up going with, because, again, we were trying to save our
designers and everyone else some time and not have to put time that they could spend
finding a new job and bigger life issues. But originally, our pitch included, like, oh, let’s
do one where, you know, we are gathering, like, fake made fan art from the years and,
like, fake love. And then we could do one of, like, fake hate that people or real hate that
people have sent us over the years. I was like, we could go through every step, and that
was one thing we pitched originally, and then it just was not feasible, the amount of time
that we would need to either design or gather
00:30:00
Nikki Elbaz: all this info. So that would probably be the one thing I would change about
it. But other than that, I think it felt great. Like, it wrapped up in a way that I think did the
brand justice.
You recently joined Stanley Black and Decker as director of marketing
Nikki Elbaz: Okay, so now that you have this new role, you kind of have to prove
yourself. What are you planning? Do you have any creative freedom? What are things
now like for you?
Nikki Elbaz: I’m very early into this role, so I’m still in that onboarding stage. I haven’t

really gotten a lot of detail necessarily on the kind of bigger projects that I’ll be working
on. So I’m very limited right now in just terms of what I know about the brand. But that
said, you know, I joined, and they, they immediately were like, based on your portfolio,
we think you’d work with this craftsman brand better. They kind of have this campaign
going now with kind of eighties rock, eighties metal dad kind of thing, which is a little
more of their comedic. They’re the, it’s a more comedic brand. And luckily, I have this
music background, too. So it’s definitely, uh, you know, these brands, it’s a tough
transition going from a brand that is willing to try a lot to a brand that has, you know,
been around for 100 years. A lot of these Stanley Black and Decker brands have been
around 100 plus years. And, you know, they have their ways that they’re set in. But part
of the thing that drew me to this role was their marketing department is kind of
undergoing the shift of bringing more things in, internal brand studio. And they kind of
want to push that kind of brand led marketing now. So it’s kind of, in a way, it feels like
I’m back in the beginning of the early, drizzly days of like, okay, let’s try to. I think the
fences might be a little tighter, but we can still kind of test them a bit because we are
kind of undertaking this new venture. But I’m hoping if I can do something that’s, you
know, 30% as weird as what I was able to do with Drizly, I think that would be a start.
Definitely more conservative of a brand, but that’s the hope, is to get to a place where
we can do some really weird, uh, by their standards, um, stuff.
Nikki Elbaz: Very cool.
What’s your favorite brand to get emails from and why
Okay, so last question. What is your favorite brand now that we don’t have drizly to, uh,
swipe emails from, what’s your favorite brand to get emails from and why?

Nikki Elbaz: I mean, the obvious one, which I’m sure everyone says I am a huge liquid
death fan. I mean, not just because I’m a metalhead, but, like, I love their stuff. I love
how it touches everything they do. Like, it’s on their email, it’s on their can, it’s in their
experiences, it’s on their product, uh, page. You know, it is. Everything is so. And it’s a
good example again of, like, this is a brand who’s not trying to be something for
everybody. We know what we are and we know the audience we’re going after. I mean,
obviously they’re expanding over time and trying to fit new audiences, but it’s really like
people want that. I don’t know if it was a TikTok or something that was like, say the
weird thing. People want realness, that liquid death is like the encapsulation of that. I
think they are. They know what they’re about. And I just love their brand. Email
specifically, though, another good one is they’re a sunglasses company called Gooder.
They’re very much like. They do a lot of fun partnerships. I think they just did one with,
like, street fighter that just came out. And again, really know what they’re doing in terms
of really, like, they know what their brand is, they know what they’re about. Their emails
are very drizzly, coded, or maybe were good or coded. I don’t know. I didn’t know about
them until deep into my drizzly tenure. But, um, they write with this kind of absurdist,
irreverent voice. Chubby’s is another one. I really like Chubby’s stuff. They’re not a
brand I would probably buy stuff from necessarily, though. It’s a, you know, it’s a men’s
shorts company. They’re not really my style, but, like, their social presence and their
emails, um, are just. They’re great. Chubby’s is a little more bro, I, er, I guess you’d say.
Which, again, it knows its audience. Um. Um, but yeah, those are a few of the great
ones.
Nikki Elbaz: I think there’s something I feel like, too, observing other people’s niches.
Like, where you see, like, okay, they’re talking to those people and I’m not one of those
people, but I’m gonna watch how they do it. Like, that can be very good inspiration to,
uh, apply to, you know, whatever niche you, you are. Surfing.

Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, I mean, a while back at drizzly, uh, like, I like, you know, I covered the
UFC for a while. I like to watch wrestling occasionally. And to me, it’s like, as opposed to
being one of this brand that is trying to be all things for all people, I like to find little
niche audiences and attack those within. And, you know, that’s where you can kind of
build out brand loyalty from. Years ago for drizzly, I did a, uh, subject line that was just,
it’s Friday. You know what that means. And it was a reference to a guy, Brody Lee. His
name was, he was a professional wrestler, and basically his whole online Persona was
just, it’s blank day. You know what that means was every tweet he ever sent, that’s the
whole thing. And unfortunately, he had just passed away unexpectedly, probably like a
week before. Maybe it was that week. And so I kind of did this email as a tribute to him.
And it got up to the point online where, like, guys from, I, uh, think he’s an AEw, which
is a wrestling organization. They were, like, responding to the tweet. Like, the people’s
tweets about, like, look at drizzly. Is this a, uh, Brody Lee reference? And, you know, me
running the Twitter at the time was like, you know, it was like, that’s great.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Uh,
00:35:00
Nikki Elbaz: so it’s just like finding those things. I mean, you can earn someone’s loyalty
forever with stuff like that. And again, it’s just like finding those niche audiences and just
not exploiting them, but, like, you know, leaning into it.
Nikki Elbaz: Mm hmm. Yeah. Talking to them, finding that relevance, finding that
connection.

Nikki Elbaz: Exactly.
All right, this has been very enlightening. Thanks for joining me for
email story time
Nikki Elbaz: All right, this has been very enlightening. Lots of like, little pieces that I
can’t wait to like, dig into. So thank you so much. This was awesome.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, thanks for having me. This is great. I never thought my first podcast
would be about emails, but this is great conversation.
Nikki Elbaz: You’ll have to get one for music and for wrestling. All your other interests
too.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, I guess so.
Nikki Elbaz: Thanks for joining me for email story time. If you enjoyed today’s story, give
this podcast a review so email marketers like you can have more fun with email. See
you next week when we dig into this story’s takeaways.