Every risk is right:

Nikki: And we heard in the episode how people said they valued sustainability, but didn’t follow through with their wallets. 

 0:05: Sentiment scores are exactly that. 

 0:08: Sentiment scores. 

 0:09: They’re how people feel, not necessarily how they act. 

 0:12: Welcome to email swipes, where we peek behind the scenes at the emails that catch your attention and earn their place in your swipe file. 

 0:19: Every other week, we’ll talk to an email expert about an experiment they ran, and in the following episode, we’ll dive into the strategies and Methods used in the email so you can inform and inspire your own email work. 

 0:30: I’m Nikki Elvas, the copywriter behind winning emails for 8 and 9 figure sassin e-commerce brands like Shopify, For Sigmatic, and Sprout Social. 

 0:37: And I know that hearing the background stories to these emails will help you turn pie in the sky insights into plug and play actions. 

 0:43: Ready to make inspiration tactical? 

 0:45: Let’s go. 

 0:46: First, a quick recap of the email we discussed last week that we’ll be digging into today. 

 0:52: Just a quick note that if any of this copy seems a little rough, it is translated from Belgian, so it’s just a Google translate of the email that he sent over. 

 1:00: So, if some of it feels a little wonky, that’s why. 

 1:03: OK, onto the email. 

 1:06: Hip Pip, it’s almost here, especially for you. 

 1:09: €5 discount. 

 1:11: Yay, it’s almost your birthday, Asper. 

 1:13: So have you made plans to celebrate? 

 1:15: Whatever you do? 

 1:17: We have some fun suggestions to treat yourself to. 

 1:20: Especially for your birthday. 

 1:21: We would also like to give you a €5 discount on your next order when you spend €50 or more. 

 1:26: This unique promo code is valid for 14 days after receiving this email. 

 1:30: Happy birthday in advance, and of course, have fun shopping. 

 1:34: Host a dinner party at home. 

 1:35: Here you’ll find everything you need to impress your guests in style. 

 1:39: Yes, I do. 

 1:40: Have a good night’s sleep, relax and enjoy some me time under the sheets with this top selection. 

 1:45: OK, I’ll stay in bed. 

 1:47: Shop with promotions. 

 1:49: Here you’ll find all our current promotions and discounts. 

 1:51: OK, I’ll go for it. 

 1:53: How to redeem your discount? 

 1:55: After shopping, go to your shopping cart, enter your promotional code and click add. 

 1:59: You’ll immediately see whether the discount has been deducted. 

 2:02: I am taking advantage of this deal. 

 2:05: What do you think of this email? 

 2:06: We’d love to hear your thoughts. 

 2:07: Good, can be better. 

 2:11: Before we get into our takeaways, I have a fun little anecdote. 

 2:14: I was featured in an email upler’s roundup, and when it was published, I was reading all the different quotes from all the other email experts who were giving their thoughts and opinions on holiday marketing, and I was going through it, obviously to hear their takes and take some inspiration, but also trying to source and see like, OK, who’s on this list? 

 2:37: Maybe I can get some new guests for email swipes. 

 2:40: And when I got to this one quote, I was like, OK, I want this person on my podcast and lo and behold, this person was Jasper, who I had already booked for an interview. 

 2:52: So that was kind of disappointing because I was like, hey, I thought I was getting a guest. 

 2:56: I already have this guest, but it was awesome validation that it would be an amazing interview and it was. 

 3:02: I was super impressed by his expertise and passion. 

 3:06: And I thought I made a really awesome episode, and I hope you enjoyed it. 

 3:10: OK, let’s get into the takeaways. 

 3:12: OK, so Yasper mentioned that Colle Shop was originally quoted a €32,000 project just to set up a birthday automation. 

 3:21: And what’s so cool is that he took the same resources that this other agency had at their disposal and launched his minimum viable email that by the way, did really well. 

 3:32: So this whole minimum viable email mentality is very important, especially with email because every email that we send teaches us so, so much. 

 3:42: It’s almost silly to go full out on any given email strategy right out of the gate because we are inevitably going to learn so much and want to iterate on what we’re learning. 

 3:53: Further, I think it’s really important sometimes to go back to that scrappy guerrilla marketing mindset and Not shoot for the stars. 

 4:00: I mean, yes, shoot for the stars in results, but not in all the bells and the whistles and the whole process of it. 

 4:06: Shoot for the stars. 

 4:07: I remember, I might have even mentioned this on the podcast already. 

 4:10: When I was in at school, we had so many projects where there was no budget, no reality even anything was possible. 

 4:18: And the ideas that my classmates were coming up with were totally crazy. 

 4:21: They never would have passed approval in real life. 

 4:25: Except in one class, which was very focused on grill and marketing and all the different ideas that we could execute with minimal budget and resources, just, you know, on the ground tactics. 

 4:36: And it was really cool to see that when you take away all the possibilities and you actually limit things, sometimes your creativity comes out even more. 

 4:45: Sometimes being scrappy means you are a lot more decisive, a lot more selective, and you end up with Much better results because of that. 

 4:52: So take away number one, get back into those riilla marketing shoes and be more aggressive with how you idea and what you choose to move forward with. 

 5:01: Sometimes it’s very easy to just spend more marketing budget or on the flip side to just go with the basic best practices, do this, do that. 

 5:07: But sometimes scaling back can actually get you way better results and obviously cost you less too. 

 5:14: And sometimes it makes more sense. 

 5:16: to start small and then go big as you learn. 

 5:19: Basically, the real takeaway number one is that we should be flexible with how we ideate and we should embrace that great ideas come in different avenues and being stuck in our same process over and over again, thinking that one way is the way is definitely a tamper on creativity and possibility. 

 5:42: When I saw the sentiment score on the bottom of the birthday email, I was very surprised. 

 5:46: I mean, you heard it when I said, Who would rate a birthday email negatively? 

 5:49: I would never think to put a sentiment score on a birthday email because I would never expect anyone to read it as anything less than positive. 

 5:57: But more than that, sentiment scores typically only work well with newsletters because you don’t want to distract the reader. 

 6:04: From clicking through on conversion emails. 

 6:06: Newsletters don’t usually have much to click. 

 6:08: They’re just more engagement focused. 

 6:11: Think about it. 

 6:11: Sentiment score popularity totally skyrocketed after we stopped seeing open metrics, and it was the only way that newsletters could really track opens. 

 6:20: To put a sentiment score on the bottom of an email that you really want a different click through on is risky. 

 6:26: I figured when I first saw this email before speaking to Jasper, I figured that the score was left on the bottom of the email kind of by accident, you know, that it was a template element that nobody bothered deleting. 

 6:36: Turns out, of course, that it was the crux of the story that they specifically wanted to track how this email was performing because it was the MVE. 

 6:45: And just thinking about this showed me that sometimes these templates and habits that we fall into actually serve us really well. 

 6:53: I am pretty anti-templates, but sometimes they have a place. 

 6:57: If there’s a sentiment score at the bottom of every email and you just keep including it, you’ll uncover really great insights, insights that you wouldn’t have considered if you had overthought whether it should be included in every single email. 

 7:09: I would have stripped it out, but it’s so awesome that they didn’t because they uncovered this really important critical piece of data. 

 7:16: People were struggling with the email because of who they were as an audience. 

 7:20: So takeaway number 2 is to embrace mistakes and definitely test breaking or even trying best practices. 

 7:27: Everything teaches us something, kind of like those accidental inventions like penicillin or Play-Doh. 

 7:34: Sometimes the most important insights come from making mistakes or stepping outside of our routines. 

 7:40: Further, this whole email story shows how different types of customer feedback be so useful and how we have to be smart about which types of feedback we use and when. 

 7:49: My default is always to look at low conversions and think, OK, we need to run customer interviews. 

 7:54: But that is the most expensive type of customer feedback. 

 7:56: It’s time intensive and it becomes a big project. 

 8:00: Sending out a survey would be cheaper, but the sentiment score is so much more direct to the email itself than even a survey. 

 8:06: They get way more responsible. 

 8:08: than separate survey emails because they are tied directly to the experience. 

 8:12: They take less work for the reader to answer. 

 8:15: Sentiment scores are easier, faster, and give you highly trustworthy data. 

 8:19: So take away number 3, pull yourself out of whatever type of customer feedback you tend to lean on and diversify. 

 8:25: Apply the right kind of feedback to whatever you need to discover, and make sure you’re matching the right type of data collection with the insights that you need. 

 8:32: Just an aside, there’s definitely going to be some bias with sentiment scores. 

 8:35: Typically, only the people who really love it or really hate it tend to respond. 

 8:39: And we heard in the episode how people said they valued sustainability, but didn’t follow through with their wallets. 

 8:45: Sentiment scores are exactly that. 

 8:48: Sentiment scores. 

 8:49: They’re how people feel, not necessarily how they act. 

 8:52: Good thing we can collate with conversion data for that. 

 8:56: So this is not really a takeaway, more an exploration because I’m curious. 

 8:59: Do you answer sentiment scores? 

 9:01: I don’t typically, despite knowing how useful they are for the email marketers behind them. 

 9:07: So it’s very surprising to me that I don’t. 

 9:09: Of course, I had to think about this. 

 9:11: Why don’t I? 

 9:12: And I think the reason I don’t So maybe we can turn this into a takeaway after all, although it may be too anecdotal to be a real takeaway. 

 9:20: The reason that I don’t respond is because it feels too decisive to say, yes, I like this email, or no, I didn’t like this email. 

 9:27: It’s like those awful multiple choice quizzes where you can argue on each of the answers. 

 9:31: Thinking back to the few emails that I have responded to, they were the ones I Definitively liked or definitively hated, although actually never mind. 

 9:39: I’ve never really clicked on note on an email. 

 9:42: I hate it because it just feels too mean, which is ridiculous because critical feedback is essential. 

 9:47: So when have I responded to emails that haven’t fit those rare love or hate categories when they gave me more options, when there were middle ground choices. 

 9:57: I also wonder if people realize that there’s a question at the end of the click. 

 10:01: When you click a rating, it often takes you to a survey. 

 10:04: Sometimes I wonder whether that would actually increase or maybe decrease the click rate on sentiment ratings. 

 10:09: On the one hand, it lets people explain their answers. 

 10:12: So if they click the thumbs up, they can clarify, Wait, I didn’t love it 100%. 

 10:17: Here’s what could have been better, although I did like it mostly. 

 10:20: That makes it easier for people to commit to a score. 

 10:23: On the other hand, knowing there’s a survey at the end means more work, more friction. 

 10:28: So it’s just an interesting thing to think about. 

 10:31: Again, not really a takeaway. 

 10:32: We’ll call it non-takeaway number 4. 

 10:34: Think more about sentiment scores, how your audience uses them, how people give feedback, and even more importantly, how people don’t give feedback. 

 10:42: Talk to your customers about this. 

 10:44: Look at how you give feedback. 

 10:45: Look at how you don’t give feedback. 

 10:48: Observe how the people in your life do or don’t give feedback, especially the non-marketers, if you’re marketing to non-marketers, and play around with things, be curious, be adventurous. 

 10:58: Oh my gosh, was I disappointed when Jasper said that he also saw that creative button copy doesn’t perform as well. 

 11:05: I’ve seen this time and again, and it’s so disappointing and I was really hoping that because they were in this successful email, maybe he had cracked a secret code. 

 11:15: And the truth is, is that he did give us some great insights into how we can play with button copy despite knowing that clear action-driven buttons do better. 

 11:23: I really like the idea of using text links as the place to play, and he’s right. 

 11:27: You also have more physical space to play there too. 

 11:30: So take away number 5. 

 11:32: Don’t give up on creative button copy, just make sure that you’re using it in a way that doesn’t inhibit your conversions, like say in your secondary text links. 

 11:40: Last takeaway, luxury brands really do struggle with email marketing. 

 11:45: They are kind of two ends of the spectrum. 

 11:47: They are the companies that do email the way that most people do email, but they cheapen their brand perception, and then there are the companies that keep their luxury feel, but don’t really see much ROI from email. 

 11:58: I think Yasper hit on something important when he said that Newhouse does a lot of storytelling, sharing the origin story of each ingredient or new line of chocolates. 

 12:06: That seems to be the magic key for luxury brand emails. 

 12:09: We saw in an episode one when Joanna Weeb shared Hoot Denim as one of her favorite brands to get emails from. 

 12:16: So take away number 6. 

 12:17: If you’re running email for a luxury brand, play up the storytelling. 

 12:22: Thanks for geeking out with me about that email story. 

 12:24: If you enjoyed either of these episodes, you’ll probably enjoy getting my emails, plus you’ll never miss another episode. 

 12:29: Sign up at ikielbus.com/subscribe, and yes, that link is in the show notes.