Choral Closing: How Copyhackers serenaded their decision-making stragglers and empowered confident decision making

Ryan Schwartz: There is kind of a pressure of will I or will I not do it? That’s already
internally generated. Like in a prospect who is genuinely interested in it. They’re already
feeling some degree of conflict and pressure of wanting it, but not necessarily wanting
to make an investment and evaluating it from all these since there’s already internal
pressure. Right? I’m like, why would I add to the pressure? Right? Pressure plus
pressure equals overwhelm equals shutdown, right?
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. So when I think about mood and tone, especially on those final
hours, one of the things I’m thinking about is how can I lighten it while still encouraging
action and decisiveness?
Nikki Elbaz: Welcome to email swipes, where we peek behind the scenes at the emails
that catch your attention and earn their place in your swipe file. Every other week we’ll
talk to an email expert about an experiment they ran, and in the following episode we’ll
dive into the strategies and methods used in the email so you can inform and inspire
your own email work. I’m Nikki Elbas, the copywriter behind winning emails for eight
and nine figure SaaS and ecommerce brands like Shopify, Four, Sigmatic, and Sprout
social. And I know that hearing the background stories to these emails will help you turn
pie in the sky insights into plug and play actions. Ready to make inspiration tactical?
Let’s go.
This is an email with a song. So this isn’t your usual closing time
email
First, let’s read today’s email.
Nikki Elbaz: You don’t want to read another doors are closing email even though yeah,
the hinges are indeed squeaking closed. So this isn’t your usual closing time email. This
is an email with a song. Tap this shift to hear the whole thing. So while the big savings
on copy school forever Eva are indeed coming to a fast close, we opted to forego the
mandatory OMG act now email and invite you to sing along with us. Or at least enjoy
knowing you’re not the only nerd on the planet before singing your way into copy
school. It is officially closing time. Joe P’s so, we won’t be quitting our day jobs anytime
soon to start a semi sonic cover band. Some dreams we’ll just have to wait. Likewise, if
you’re planning to lock in your status as a well paid and highly performing copywriter for
the long haul, this is your best chance to secure it. Pps if there are only seconds left on
this countdown timer as you read this, skip the song and pick your plan here.
Ryan Schwartz has spent ten years in the copywriting space
Nikki Elbaz: All right, Ry, thanks so much for joining.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah, it is so good to be here.
Nikki Elbaz: Tell us about who you are, what you do.
Ryan Schwartz: Name is Ryan Schwartz. Some people call me Ry Schwartz. That only
really became a thing because I was so professional that I just used my Gmail address
for the first five years of my freelance career. And Schwartz Ryan was taken, so I
became Schwartz Ryan. People started calling me that.
Nikki Elbaz: Interesting.
Ryan Schwartz: I’m super canadian and didn’t want to correct people, so that became a
thing. Yeah. So what to say? Ten years in the copywriting space, primarily in the course
creation space, coaching space, expert space, created a bunch of courses internally in
partnership with copy hackers and copy school. Still in the trenches of finding out and
testing new methods to connect with readers, connect with audiences, and even more
human and transformationally, we’re gonna make that word waze, especially in a post
AI world, and always enjoying discovering new things, testing new things, and sharing
new things. So that’s a little bit of an intro. A, totally unpolished intro. I’ve never done
that intro before, so, yeah, that’s a new one.
Nikki Elbaz: I find that I can’t give the same intro every time.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. The worst is when, like, you hear people talk on stage more than
once, right. And you hear the exact same story verbatim, same jokes verbatim,
complete with the same emotions generated on Q as they’re telling their story. And I’m
like, it’s a performance.
Nikki Elbaz: Ugh.
Ryan Schwartz: you know, so I guess now.
Nikki Elbaz: We know you’re human.
Ryan Schwartz: There we go.
Nikki Elbaz: That’s awesome. Which we’ll have to get into with the whole AI discussion.
How have you been handling the AI thing? Loving and embracing all
dimensions
But my head is first reeling at this whole rai versus Ryan thing. Like, in your personal
life, no one calls you Rye?
Ryan Schwartz: No one calls me rhyme in my real life. Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: That’s crazy.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. In fact, like, people in my personal life who see my online life,
they’re like, right, I don’t want to call you that. Why do people call you that? That’s weird.
And I’m like, long story. Yeah, long story.
Nikki Elbaz: Okay, so let’s dig into that AI stuff now.
Ryan Schwartz: Sure.
Nikki Elbaz: How have you been handling the AI thing?
Ryan Schwartz: yeah. Loving and embracing all dimensions of it.
There’s an appreciation for the type of copy that AI can produce
quickly
Here, let me start off with a tweet that I tweeted out under one of my aliases. As AI
becomes more human, humans must become more divine. Right? Or some take on
that. And there’s actually an appreciation for the type of copy that AI is able to produce
at volume really quickly with a high degree of efficiency. And I think that that has
created room for just the conversation of, like, what is the next level for the human
copywriter? What is the next level of even diving into? Right. How do we create
transformations at scale? How do we dive
00:05:00
into our research? How do we even extract richer insights at yield copy that connects
on a deeper level? So these are all questions that I’ve sat with for years. And with AI
being able to do many of the things that like surface level copy has been able to do, it’s
just kind of prompted that faster, right? In a way. So yeah, I appreciate what AI does.
I’ve really enjoyed it for research purposes. Just even communicating with AI as my
avatar. Right. I’m like having therapy sessions with him.
Nikki Elbaz: Oh, that’s fun.
Ryan Schwartz: That has been cool. As far as writing goes, I have not used AI, to write,
produce any client work or work of my own. And I think one big factor on that is like, at
least for myself as a personal brand and the majority of my clients who are coaches
and course creators, there’s volume to write and there’s not so much volume that
writing should be optimized for speed. I don’t think that’s the right thing to be optimizing
for. I think writing should still be optimized for connection and conversion and
effectiveness. It’s not such a time consuming task that I feel it’s even worth offloading.
Right. Or trying to replicate, at least for the people I work with. Obviously companies
that are writing hundreds of different product descriptions at scale, that’s a whole
different story. But in my view and experience, the personal brand industry and the
coach industry and the expert industry, I don’t see that full let’s replace ourselves with
AI coming anytime soon because there’s just no need to optimize for that kind of speed,
in my view.
Nikki Elbaz: That’s such a great perspective because so often we feel like we have to
optimize for speed for everything, and it’s so not true. And also, there’s this guilt that I’ve
had when I don’t use AI for writing, which I’ve used it for my teachers thank you gifts.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. Great usage. Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Yes. And every time I’ve tried to do it for emails, it just ends up taking so
much longer that I keep thinking like, okay, but this is like training in employees. This is
like, you know, when you manage people, you have to put in time, investment and you’ll
get used to it and then it will make you faster. M but I don’t necessarily need to be
faster. I’m plenty fast without it. So that’s such a good point.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. Ah. For me, what I get really passionate about is what gets lost
when you’re not writing like, in my own personal process, so many of my, like, hooks
and ideas and even new product ideas and even visions for my brand or, the brand of
the company I’m working for come online in the process of writing. It’s like writing isn’t
just for the sake of the output, but in the discovery that comes in the process of that
output. So I think so much would be lost in my own personal process if I just relegated
myself as a prompt engineer. I think so much comes out of the process beyond just the
output of, an email sequence for a sales page. It’s all the discoveries along the way.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, I feel like if you don’t come out of a writing session with ten pages of
scraps, 20 more email ideas, you didn’t do it. Right?
Ryan Schwartz: Totally. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s my view on it. Obviously there will be
different views across different industries and different use cases, but for the people I
enjoy writing for, there’s such an emphasis on establishing genuine connection with
their reader and empowering that transformational process and, just empowering them
to become better clients, better customers. And, yeah, there just hasn’t been a good
enough reason to dilute that impact for the sake of potential time savings.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah. All right, so let’s transition to talking about this email.
Everyone was talking about closing time, the song in their emails
Ryan Schwartz: Cool, cool.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, so I didn’t write it.
Ryan Schwartz: I did not write it.
Nikki Elbaz: Who did?
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah, so I wrote this email years ago, or a variation of this email years
ago, probably like five years ago. There’s this trend. Everyone was talking about closing
time, the song in their emails.
Nikki Elbaz: I missed that trend.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. I mean, maybe it was only a trend in my own mind, but I feel like I
was seeing it everywhere. So one thing I’ve never loved doing is screaming and my,
like, doors are closing emails. I’ve just never felt good doing that. Never wanted to do
that. It’s not something I would ever do in real life. I would never scream at somebody.
And, that tends to be like, one of my criterias when I am writing copy is what I actually
say this out loud in person with any level of self respect and respect for the person I’m
talking to. And typically that means avoiding as much as I can the oh my God, doors are
closing urgency. Like, do it now, do it now, do it now. And I don’t know, I was a semi
sonic fan. I had a cd in Canada called Big Shiny Tunes three that came out in like 1997
and that song was on it and I totally appreciated it. And I don’t know, I wrote an email
about it. About closing time and the song. And for whatever reason, it didn’t get used in
that initial launch, I wrote a four. I think we went for something a little bit more standard
that first time around.
00:10:00
Nikki Elbaz: Weird.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. And then we had an amazing opportunity last year. So last year
we launched, I think it was called the Forever Eva edition of Copy School. And it was
kind of a spontaneous thing. It wasn’t on the calendar for like, a year in advance. It was
something that, like, do you want to do it? Yeah, let’s do it. And I flew out to Edmonton
where, the copy hackers studio offices. And it felt like the right opportunity to do it
because now we were together and we could actually sing it out, which added a whole
other dimension. So my favorite part about writing for this whole launch is like, I had this
script, like, I was an office fan. I love that whole style. And I’m like, can we just replicate
this? Can we replicate how people are actually orienting around something closing
down? Right. And can we sing it out and really make it fun? So, yeah, that’s kind of how
it came to be. Like, the original idea was five years ago. Last year we finally had the
opportunity to play it out fully and actually produce something really cool and really fun.
I think when it comes to closing emails, I’m always thinking about what is the mood I
want people to be experiencing while reading this or while consuming this. Right. The
way I envision it, people typically will read an email or a piece of copy in a fairly, like,
neutral, semi open state, right. They’re not really thinking about what just happened.
They’re just like reading an email and you get to kind of like, shift the tone. You get to
shift the mood if you choose to. And especially, like, on the last day, the card was
closing in like a few hours. And I, typically like mixing moods, right. There is kind of a
pressure of will I or will I not do it? That’s already internally generated, like, in a
prospect who is genuinely interested in it. They’re already feeling some degree of
conflict and pressure of wanting it, but not necessarily wanting to make an investment
and evaluating it from all these. There’s already internal pressure, right. I’m like, why
would I add to the pressure? Right? Pressure plus pressure equals overwhelm, equals
shutdown. Right?
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah.
Ryan Schwartz: So when I think about mood and tone, especially on those final hours,
one of the things I’m thinking about is how can I lighten it while still encouraging action
and decisiveness, right. People in general tend to make their best decisions when
they’re in a relaxed, confident, fun state, right?
Ryan Schwartz: So, yeah, they’re not going to set that tone for themselves. I might as
well set the tone in the email and then the experience for those who ended up watching
that video. So that’s the strategic component of it is how do I actually set the tone that
empowers a confident decision and take some of that pressure off that our best
prospects would be feeling who hadn’t yet bought. Right. The people who buy at the
last day are typically those who have been considering it, wrestling with it, feeling
pressurized and generally not loving the experience. How could we actually give them
an experience that is enjoyable, enlightens it and takes some pressure off while still
being clear that it is time to make a decision? That’s a bit of the backstory, I think.
Nikki Elbaz: Also when you’re working with digital products, especially courses where
there’s that continuous interaction with you guys as instructors, it’s not just you shipping
a product. This is such a great way to show like, hey, you’re going to enjoy the
experience. This is not just going to be some course that’s going to sit on that
dashboard. You’re actually. This is going to be fun. This will be great.
Nikki Elbaz: Let’s do this.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: It’s just a good continuation, for sure.
Melrose: It’s a great branding move as well
I was thinking from more of the aspect of the people who were not even great leads,
just, all the millions of copywriters that are on your list just to read your emails. It’s just a
great way to entertain them and continue that loyalty. So, like, maybe they’re not
considering this particular, now’s not a good time, or they already took copy school and
they’re just on an AB split just to get those emails. It’s just a great branding move as
well.
Ryan Schwartz: Totally. Yeah, that’s a great point. Yeah. I think it’s like a basic goal,
right, of, like, everyone should feel better for having had a touch point with your brand,
right? There shouldn’t be any touch points where they feel worse than they did a few
seconds before. That’s just not a sustainable way to maintain a relationship. I do get the
time and the place to hold people accountable to decisions to highlight certain pain
points, but even when we highlight pain points, we tend to do it with some degree of
humor, not like deflection away from a reality, but with a tonality. Right. That, like, first of
all, doesn’t shame them for where they’ve been and just almost like, normalizes that.
Yeah, we all go through this stuff. This is not you being crazy or in a worse place or
deficient in any way. This is just life being life. So, yeah, I love playing with mood. I love
playing with tone. I love playing with how people will feel when they have that touch
point.
Nikki Elbaz: It’s a great point about the pain points, where one thing that I think you’re
amazing at, with pain points, I mean, I think in general, your pain points are always
00:15:00
Nikki Elbaz: just spot on. Like, yeah, exactly. That humor, but also that real depth of, we
got you. I understand your pain, I think, because it comes from a very deep
understanding and a very clear, illustrative definition of what that pain point is, which
makes it very relevant. It feels very real to the person. So it doesn’t feel like, oh, you are
looking in at me and pointing to my pain, and you’re sympathizing. You poor thing.
You’re feeling it with me. So it has that empathy baked in m. But it also feels not too
heavy because you’re with me in it.
Ryan Schwartz: Right. That’s cool. Yeah. A friend, a local friend, I think he’s a family
therapist. He has this brilliant word that really summarizes the place from which I write
a lot of those pain points. And I think he called it projectuition, right? Where it’s like,
partly projecting my own experience, partly using my intuition, and partly reading into
the data that we’ve gathered. And I think it’s such a bonus when you get to write for
products, when you get to write for courses, when you just get to write for stuff that you
have had some personal experience in, like, it is a cheat code, and I know it’s not
always available. And when you’re writing, or I’ll speak for myself and I’m writing for
product or program where I’ve experienced some degree of the problem, it solves for it
is easier. And I’ll just say it is a cheat code. I get to project my own experience onto it.
And, there’s a depth of understanding and a depth of empathy that isn’t always as
easier to tap into.
Nikki Elbaz: If you love email swipes, you will love my playbooks. They are chock full of
inspiration with dozens of examples, color coded breakdowns, and all the whys and
hows and wheres and whats. Of all the different ecom flows, even better. Theyre
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way. You can learn them for even less if you get the whole bundle. Another piece of
feedback that I loved. I purchased the welcome sequence playback and loved it. It’s an
easy flowing read and following it is a breeze. I love how it’s so actionable. It takes you
step by step through the process, but you don’t end up with a templated sequence that
sounds the same. I also love how you brought in relevant examples to prove the point
you were making. I pull it up before every welcome sequence I write. That’s a big point
of these playbooks, that you don’t end up with the same thing every single time that you
understand the strategy. Just like copywriter Paul Melrose says, since using Nikki’s
playbook, starting work on an ecommerce email sequence without the playbooks would
feel like jumping out of plane without a parachute. And these are not copy and paste
solutions either. They work because Nikki gets you to understand the essential
concepts at play so you can solve your own or your clients email problems. Big love and
appreciation for what she’s given us. Thanks Nikki, but don’t think it’s all ah theory.
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twelve@nikielbas.com email playbooks and yes, that link is in the show notes. Wish you
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I got your back with the sass success pack. Say that five times fast. Okay? Don’t just
head to the show notes, you’ll find the link and grab it there. Okay, back to our show.
Nikki Elbaz: It’s a great way of putting it. Cheat ah code because you can’t always, but
when you can, it’s great. Yeah.
Ryan Schwartz: Yep. Those are usually the projects that I’ll allow to slide into my
calendar even if I’m overbooked, that’ll come in and I’m like, yeah, I know this. I know
this pan. I know, the situation. Bring it on. Right?
Nikki Elbaz: I can do this.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah, totally.
The video component really seemed to land the most after the fact
Nikki Elbaz: All right. So did you get any cool results or, you know, responses to this
email?
Ryan Schwartz: I’ll be honest, I wasn’t tending to the reply to box on this one. We just
didn’t go over it. So I can’t give specific details on that. I’ve had people reach out to me.
Right. Like, after the fact, especially around the video component, that part really
seemed to land the most. And I think you already touched upon it. Right. It was like the
extra human element. It was actually like the physicalization of something digital. These
are actual humans in an actual physical space. It just added an extra
00:20:00
Ryan Schwartz: degree of dimensionality to it. So, yeah, there was a lot of great
feedback I personally heard around the video. People enjoying that. I think some people
who ended up buying, ended up messaging me after the fact. Right. And they’re like,
yep, this is the one that did it.
Nikki Elbaz: Oh,
Nikki Elbaz: Cool.
Ryan Schwartz: In terms of hard data. No, I wasn’t, like, in the CRM, tracking that and
seeing the replies.
Nikki Elbaz: The best responses are the people that reach out and make the effort to
really let their thoughts be known.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. and I mean, that’s what was most validating. Right. The whole
goal was to help people feel relaxed and at ease and see our own quirks and
imperfections and silliness and weirdness. Because we’ve worked with a lot of
copywriters over the years. Right. A lot of us are very weird sometimes awkward people.
And I’m, like, at the front of the line of weird and awkward. So, yeah, I think just allowing
that to, like, stand out in front, especially during the most pressure filled final hours of a
launch.
Ryan Schwartz: I think was really effective.
Nikki Elbaz: I love that shift of. They’re already feeling so much pressure, so just how
can we lighten it up but keep them in the decision making mode, but in a lighter space
because we make better decisions like that.
Ryan Schwartz: Totally. I think I once gave a training in, it’s probably like deadline
funnel. They’re the ones who have their timers splattered across all these launches,
right? Yeah. A course I was creating with Jack Boren, the founder of it. Shout out to
jack. And I’m like, I’m so grateful that you have that timer so that I don’t have to be a
human timekeeper. Right. Like, I could actually be human and let the timer do its thing.
M as a copywriter, as a human, you don’t need to be the one saying, like, there’s 3
hours left. When there’s literally a timer saying, there’s 3 hours left. Let the timer be the
timer, and then you get to be the human. Right.
Nikki Elbaz: Like, you couldn’t layer in all that empathy and all that understanding and
all that everything, because that timer, by definition, is going to feel pressurizing.
Ryan Schwartz: Totally. Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Cool. You’re kind of making me want to get it back into the launch space.
Ryan Schwartz: Do it.
If you could go back in time and perfect this email, would you change
anything
Nikki Elbaz: All right. If you could go back in time and perfect this email, would you
change anything or the video? maybe get voice lessons. Just kidding.
Ryan Schwartz: Gosh. Definitely a voice lesson. Like, I totally rehearsed that morning.
Like, in the shower, I’m like, that’s great. I just wanted to know what my range was for
that day. I’m like, this, I could hit this. I can hit. It’s a little range test. Yeah. What would
have I done differently? Nothing really stands out in terms of what I would do differently
as a broader strategy. I think it would have been really cool to run retargeting ads for
the final 48 hours to that video and really give it greater launch real estate to breathe. I
think where it was positioned within that launch the final few hours, it was going to get
some visibility, but not as much visibility as it otherwise could have. So I think it could
have worked really well as a retargeting piece. So probably releasing it probably 48
hours before and, yeah, just giving a chance to run some retargeting to it.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, that’s a great strategy. I actually missed the, timer. I opened it. We
already zeroed out, and when I clicked through to the landing page, it was down. I’m
like, no, that’s so disappointing.
Ryan Schwartz: Exactly. So, yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Letting it stay live for a little bit longer.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think when you create what you feel is like a really
cool piece to your launch or your campaign. Yeah. I think just making sure that you
really give it the real estate and the attention that you feel it would benefit from to have
its full effect.
Nikki Elbaz: Also, you just, when you like it, you just want to.
Ryan Schwartz: Exactly. That’s the reason. Enough, right? Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Hey, if it’s your launch, you get to do it your way.
Ryan Schwartz: Totally. Yep.
Nikki Elbaz: That was kind of my next question. You know, would you send something
similar again? But I like this idea of repurposing it where it’s not just, hey, yeah, let’s do
it again for the next launch, but let’s just actually use it in different ways so that more
people could see it.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah, exactly.
What are your favorite brands to cull email inspiration from
Nikki Elbaz: So last question. What are your favorite brands to cull email inspiration
from?
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah, this is one I had to, like, really think through. So one way to
answer this right is what are the email list I’ve been subscribed to for more than ten
years. Even if I’m no longer really buying stuff from them, I just hang around the list to
read what they’re sending out. Appsumo comes to mind. I’ve just always appreciated
their ability to, like, maintain a compelling tone. Email after email, product description
after product description. That is a space I would particularly find challenging to
consistently write interesting copy in the. Right.
Nikki Elbaz: Yeah, because they also, they have so many of them. Endless.
Ryan Schwartz: Endless. And a lot of them are very similar to things that were released
like the week before. Right. So it’s like sometimes I just imagine being their in house
copywriter and like, ugh, another project management tool. How do we make this one
sound interesting? Right. And somehow they do. So, yeah, I have a lot of appreciation
for them in terms of just their ability to continuously produce a. But I deem to be
00:25:00
Ryan Schwartz: entertaining and fun to read copy personal brands. Let me think
through that. So I’m no longer subscribed to a ton of personal brands. I’m gonna give a
shout out to someone that many of your listeners probably don’t follow or haven’t heard
of. But Cheryl, rerich, fellow Canadian, has a program called Automate and chill. And
yeah, I could just read her copy all day. Just so much fun. What stands out, so what
stands out in her emails is what I would call the mundane moment storytelling. Right?
So, like, I have an aversion, a weird aversion to grandiose storytelling. So only
recounting like, big dramatic moments. But I love reading about how you caught a,
mouse in your pool filter, right? If you can make that story sound interesting, which I
did. Right. I caught a mouse in my pool filter. Those who could really add color and
depth and interest to these mundane moments, that’s what really draws me in and what
I really appreciate about people’s writing. So, yeah, Cheryl does a great job doing that. I
don’t think she ever told a mouse in a pool filter story.
Nikki Elbaz: She needs to get a mouse to get stuck in her pool filter so that she can tell
the story exactly.
Ryan Schwartz: But she stands out, Tarzan Kay stands out, for that. Her storytelling is
what I would deem to be really engaging, really next level, even when I’m not planning
on reading an email and she lands there. I’ll read it. Just to read it.
Nikki Elbaz: Those are the worst.
Nikki Elbaz: You’re like, no, I was going to be productive now.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah, why am I reading this email? Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s what
I tend to appreciate. People who could tell, tell stories that are present in their life right
now, like something that just happened. I think that there’s something powerful about
the imminence of something that’s being recounted versus something too far back and
too distant. And I think that comes back down to what we were talking about at the
beginning of this podcast, which was like, I have an aversion to performance and what’s
overly rehearsed. Right. There was a moment in my life where I enjoyed a good
performance and a good story, but I think what I really resonate most with is people
who draw me in to their experience of the world around them. That’s how I get to know
them. Right. It’s like, how do they experience this very mundane event that could
happen to me tomorrow? That’s where I feel a connection point to somebody. It’s like,
yeah, I want to know how Nikki experiences a mouse getting caught in her pool filter.
No, no, no.
Nikki Elbaz: I don’t want to know that.
Ryan Schwartz: But, like, that’s a way to get to know you, right? I want to know how
Nikki feels when the coffee shop line is really long and somebody is at the front still
scanning all the boards. Right. And not making a decision and asking a billion questions
to the barista and totally not self aware that align is building behind them. I want to
know about your experience in that moment because I experienced that yesterday and I
want to see exactly. So I think in those types of stories, there’s just the opportunity to
connect deeper with a person or a brand.
Nikki Elbaz: And with yourself as well. Because like you mentioned, I experienced that
yesterday. So it’s that connection point between you and the other person.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah.
Nikki Elbaz: Which just builds that connection even more.
Ryan Schwartz: Totally.
Nikki Elbaz: I think that’s particularly relevant in the, personal brand space and the
course creation space and obviously that kind of thing. Like building that personal
connection.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah. And chat. GPT doesn’t know about the line I stood in, like, at the
coffee shop right now.
Nikki Elbaz: I want to put that prompt in, like, okay, give me that experience and just see
what it comes out with.
Ryan Schwartz: Yeah, that’s a good test.
Nikki Elbaz: That sounds frustrating, right?
Give this podcast a review so email marketers can have more fun
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All right, thank you so much. This was awesome.
Ryan Schwartz: That’s all good. This is fun.
Nikki Elbaz: Thanks for joining me for email story time. If you enjoyed today’s story, give
this podcast a review so email marketers like you can have more fun with email. See
you next week when we dig into this story’s takeaways.
00:28:55